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Show HN: Lumix Engine – Open source C++ 3D game engine

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Re: Show HN: Lumix Engine – Open source C++ 3D game engine

#111

Post by pjmlp »

moron4hire wrote: post #81
pjmlp wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because the values of the game industry are rooted in the demoscene, commercialization of game related IP assets and consulting work related specific hardware and design knowledge, without any religion about freedom of tooling, this is what most FOSS advocates fail to understand about the industry.

Given that every other industry has moved to FOSS software for their tooling, it's the game industry that has a "religion" about proprietary software being necessary to make money.

What other industry?

Many of the tools I use daily on our customer projects are proprietary.

Re: Show HN: Lumix Engine – Open source C++ 3D game engine

#112

Post by je42 »

pjmlp wrote: post #40
cyborgx7 wrote: post #3

Maybe I'm just now getting aware of it but I just recently learned of Godot[1] and now this as well. Seems like we have the chance to replace Unity as the "Community" game engine with a free open source version. [1] https://godotengine.org/

A lot of work still needs to go into those engines to achieve feature parity, specially in regards to GUI tooling. Just check Unreal's 2017 roadmap.

i found unreal very big. slow to compile and change. and a very old source code base. lots of code before C++11 and STL standardization. which is a bit weird with when one is used to code using C++14/11.

Re: Show HN: Lumix Engine – Open source C++ 3D game engine

#113

Post by Namrog84 »

mikulas_florek wrote: post #24
sytelus wrote: post #20

So... Unreal Engine is already open source and cross platform. I understand they want royalty for revenues > $3000 but that seems ultra reasonable to me considering you get reliable large team to put out release after release. Does any of the engines mentioned in this thread come close to feature set in Unreal? What's the value here other than creating basic 2D/3D games?

You are right that UE/Unity/Lumberyard? is the way to go for 95% of users, but: * UE may have it's source code publicly available, but it's definitely not free (as freedom to do anything with it) * UE is very resource heavy * You can not use it to create gambling or military stuff * 2D possible, but not very nice * Complicated code None of the open source engines come very close to UE, but you pay the price for it. E…

UE4 is only as resource heavy as you want it to be, just as Unity can be resource heavy if you follow certain patterns. Unity and UE4 and many others can achieve quite a bit of parity in performance nowadays. There are scenarios that either one has potential to win out in.

Epic has made great strides in so many areas that if you haven't tried it in a few releases(6ish months?), there is quite a bit of stuff that is better (both in cleanliness/precision but also in performance and overhead)

Re: Show HN: Lumix Engine – Open source C++ 3D game engine

#114

Post by mikulas_florek »

Namrog84 wrote: post #113
mikulas_florek wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are right that UE/Unity/Lumberyard? is the way to go for 95% of users, but: * UE may have it's source code publicly available, but it's definitely not free (as freedom to do anything with it) * UE is very resource heavy * You can not use it to create gambling or military stuff * 2D possible, but not very nice * Complicated code None of the open source engines come very close to UE, but you pay the price for it. E…

UE4 is only as resource heavy as you want it to be, just as Unity can be resource heavy if you follow certain patterns. Unity and UE4 and many others can achieve quite a bit of parity in performance nowadays. There are scenarios that either one has potential to win out in. Epic has made great strides in so many areas that if you haven't tried it in a few releases(6ish months?), there is quite a bit of stuff that is b…

I just tried to open UE 4.14.2 (no scene) - it took 140seconds, how is that not resource heavy? Opening some basic project - 15 seconds. Making a small change in my plugin and compiling it ~2minutes. Intellisense are quite slow, VisualAssist even slower. Donwloading UE - several GBs.

I can recompile my whole engine in 20 seconds (and I am not using precompiled headers), editor launches in ~1 second, basic scene load ~1 second. Small change in source code - compile & link in 3 seconds. Intellisense brokes from time to time when using FBX SDK, but it's fine otherwise and without FBX SDK there is no problem. Engine size with some necessary data - a few tens of MB.

When I am doing something in my game and I have to change something, turn off engine + make change + compile it + start engine + load the scene = few seconds. It's so fast I did not even bother to implement hotreload for native code.

When I'm working on my UE plugin - the same cycle is several minutes.

Re: Show HN: Lumix Engine – Open source C++ 3D game engine

#115

Post by hacoo »

schoen wrote: post #98
iainmerrick wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a must-have for 3D programming, for working with vectors and matrices. OpenGL's shader language is basically C with (hard coded) operator overloading for this reason.

Could you explain a little more about how the operator overloading is used in this context? Is it just that arithmetic operators are made to work in their linear algebra sense on objects representing matrices, so M*N will return a new object representing the matrix product M×N?

That's exactly how it would be used. Game programming involves a pretty enormous amount of geometry and vector arithmetic, so it's a domain where being able to write s*(u+v) is an advantage over scaleVec(s, addVec(u, v)). Same logic applies to matrices, as you described.

Personally, I think there are more important advantages of C++ over C, and operator overloading can get ugly FAST if you're not careful.

Re: Show HN: Lumix Engine – Open source C++ 3D game engine

#116

Post by schoen »

hacoo wrote: post #115
schoen wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could you explain a little more about how the operator overloading is used in this context? Is it just that arithmetic operators are made to work in their linear algebra sense on objects representing matrices, so M*N will return a new object representing the matrix product M×N?

That's exactly how it would be used. Game programming involves a pretty enormous amount of geometry and vector arithmetic, so it's a domain where being able to write s*(u+v) is an advantage over scaleVec(s, addVec(u, v)). Same logic applies to matrices, as you described. Personally, I think there are more important advantages of C++ over C, and operator overloading can get ugly FAST if you're not careful.

That makes sense. Thanks for the explanation!

Re: Show HN: Lumix Engine – Open source C++ 3D game engine

#117

Post by Namrog84 »

mikulas_florek wrote: post #114
Namrog84 wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

UE4 is only as resource heavy as you want it to be, just as Unity can be resource heavy if you follow certain patterns. Unity and UE4 and many others can achieve quite a bit of parity in performance nowadays. There are scenarios that either one has potential to win out in. Epic has made great strides in so many areas that if you haven't tried it in a few releases(6ish months?), there is quite a bit of stuff that is b…

I just tried to open UE 4.14.2 (no scene) - it took 140seconds, how is that not resource heavy? Opening some basic project - 15 seconds. Making a small change in my plugin and compiling it ~2minutes. Intellisense are quite slow, VisualAssist even slower. Donwloading UE - several GBs. I can recompile my whole engine in 20 seconds (and I am not using precompiled headers), editor launches in ~1 second, basic scene load…

the 140 seconds seems like something is wrong or some weird bottleneck is happening especially for a empty scene. I feel like opening a scene for me is about 10 seconds at most.

I thought you were talking about it being resource heavy relative to unity, not to your own home grown one, which is likely (and obviously) much lighter. I have no doubt in that comparison all the larger game engines have quite resource heavy editor. But the tradeoff is supposed to be that few extra seconds loading it up and few GB downloading it, saves you potentially months of work you don't need to do yourself in a more custom engine.

the 2 minute plugin change also seems really off. I can tweak my plugins and recompile in a few seconds.

Intellisense is much better than it used to, at least on my own machine, but I will admit it was finicky for me for a while. Its usually instant for me nowadays, though I will admit at one point it was ridiculously slow(5-10 seconds). I have no idea what I've changed and I am on the same computer.

no getting around UE4 being quite big, several GB, to download.

Re: Show HN: Lumix Engine – Open source C++ 3D game engine

#118

Post by tluyben2 »

moron4hire wrote: post #81
pjmlp wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because the values of the game industry are rooted in the demoscene, commercialization of game related IP assets and consulting work related specific hardware and design knowledge, without any religion about freedom of tooling, this is what most FOSS advocates fail to understand about the industry.

Given that every other industry has moved to FOSS software for their tooling, it's the game industry that has a "religion" about proprietary software being necessary to make money.

I wish it were true but major parts of my time are not using FOSS; iOS app dev & embedded dev notably.

Re: Show HN: Lumix Engine – Open source C++ 3D game engine

#119

Post by daemin »

pjmlp wrote: post #42
daemin wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Generally Direct3D is for Windows and OpenGL is for all other platforms. Sometimes the OpenGL renderer works on Windows as well for easier testing and development.

When "all other platforms" does not include gaming consoles, as there is this urban myth of OpenGL support on them. Only partially true on the PS3 (GL ES 1.0 with Cg), which was largely ignored.

Yes, consoles have their own rendering libraries, well for the XBoxOne it's DirectX, but for the PS4 it's a proprietary library (Source: currently working at a AAA studio).

But that is a technicality, because most developers that are making an engine (especially indie or hobby developers) don't have access to development hardware and SDK's.

So it's valid to say that OpenGL runs on all other platforms (that the developer is targeting).

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