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The Secret Lives of Professors (What Being a Professor is Really Like)

matt-welsh.blogspot.com

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Re: The Secret Lives of Professors (What Being a Professor is Really Like)

#31

Post by stoney »

anongradstudent wrote: post #28
timr wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same for me. I had a few opportunities for good post-docs, but I just couldn't see the point. I didn't really want to be a professor, and if you don't want to be a prof, a post-doc is just a really low-rent job.

Do you think there's a point to getting a PhD at all? I've been debating dropping out of my PhD program (after one year), mostly for personal reasons, but partially because most grads from my (top N) program end up not being able to land a research or academic position after graduation. If I end up like 95% of the graduates from my program, will it have been a waste of time? Is there any value in a PhD if you do your…

As you said, there is not much in the way of direct financial compensation for having a PhD in industry, but it can act as a foot in the door and it can (depending on the company) mean you get treated a bit differently once you are hired. Researchy type projects tend to get pushed to people who are good at open ended researchy things, and having a PhD is a good indicator of that.

For me the biggest value from my PhD came from the writing up. It is really, really, really hard to get from having "done all of the work" to writing a coherent, well defended thesis on it. You will get very good at spotting holes in arguments (particularly yours, but also other peoples). You will get a very real understanding of how much work is involved in getting from 95% to 100% finished. It's not directly valued in industry but I know that I benefit personally from my writing up experience.

And you get to call yourself doctor. That's nice.

Re: The Secret Lives of Professors (What Being a Professor is Really Like)

#32

Post by vlad »

timr wrote: post #18
abstractbill wrote: post #5

This nicely sums up a bunch of reasons why I decided not to do a postdoc, and instead joined my first startup after finishing my PhD. I'm sure it works for some people, but I just couldn't see myself being happy with it.

Same for me. I had a few opportunities for good post-docs, but I just couldn't see the point. I didn't really want to be a professor, and if you don't want to be a prof, a post-doc is just a really low-rent job.

Since others may not know, you and Bill completed your PhD's in Mathematics and Biology/Chemistry, respectively. You both had experience programming and are now early employees of a software startup. Would you say you were partially drawn to the software world to change things up? Are there counter-examples on Hacker News of graduate students in Computer Science looking forward to doing a post-doc (i.e., the reverse situation)?

Re: The Secret Lives of Professors (What Being a Professor is Really Like)

#33

Post by impeachgod »

anongradstudent wrote: post #28
timr wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same for me. I had a few opportunities for good post-docs, but I just couldn't see the point. I didn't really want to be a professor, and if you don't want to be a prof, a post-doc is just a really low-rent job.

Do you think there's a point to getting a PhD at all? I've been debating dropping out of my PhD program (after one year), mostly for personal reasons, but partially because most grads from my (top N) program end up not being able to land a research or academic position after graduation. If I end up like 95% of the graduates from my program, will it have been a waste of time? Is there any value in a PhD if you do your…

It's easier to immigrate, as a foreigner to the USA/Canada/Australia, if you have a PhD. That's really the only reason I'm getting my degree.

Re: The Secret Lives of Professors (What Being a Professor is Really Like)

#35

Post by endtime »

nostrademons wrote: post #23
endtime wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seriously? You'd rather implement Tetris in Obj-C than make a fundamental, provable improvement to an important algorithm? We have very different ideas of fun.

If by "fundamental, provable improvement to an important algorithm", you mean something like discovering Floyd-Warshall, then yes. I'd rather be programming Tetris in Obj-C. Floyd-Warshall, while cool, wouldn't be recognized by 99.9999% of the people out there, while iPhone Tetris would be used by millions. More to the point, if you hack up iPhone Tetris, you have a game that you can play, while if you invent Floyd-W…

>I can respect basic CS research without wanting to do it myself.

Sure. Likewise. I don't plan on doing a PhD. I was primarly responding to the lack of respect for CS research:

>Much better than research prototypes that go no where beyond a publication or two.

Re: The Secret Lives of Professors (What Being a Professor is Really Like)

#36

Post by liedra »

frossie wrote: post #27
fadmmatt wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was an entrepreneur (failed twice), and I'm now a professor. Being a pre-tenure professor is way more terrifying than being an entrepreneur was. And, depending on the field, between 25% and 75% of your salary as a professor will come from being able to procure external funding. If you can't convince the funding agencies to pay you, then tenure buys you an office, a teaching load and health care. It's been terrifyin…

Either we have too many scientists, or not enough science funding. A little bit of both, to which I would add a third: the way we fund science is... I'm going to charitably say "sub-optimal"

And then there's us lot in non-science disciplines who sit back and think "gosh, lucky scientists, they get all the funding..." :)

Re: The Secret Lives of Professors (What Being a Professor is Really Like)

#37

Post by mturmon »

tensor wrote: post #25
nostrademons wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If by "fundamental, provable improvement to an important algorithm", you mean something like discovering Floyd-Warshall, then yes. I'd rather be programming Tetris in Obj-C. Floyd-Warshall, while cool, wouldn't be recognized by 99.9999% of the people out there, while iPhone Tetris would be used by millions. More to the point, if you hack up iPhone Tetris, you have a game that you can play, while if you invent Floyd-W…

I would guess that Floyd-Warshall has affected far more people than Tetris has, despite the fact that most people do not recognize it. Personally, I would rather have a positive impact on the world than simply be recognized. Hundreds of years in the future, Floyd-Warshall will still be used. Will Tetris be used? Maybe. But it is a game. It is not solving real problems. Famous people today being recognized far in the…

With all respect, people should be doing things they're drawn to. When you're about to retire, if you didn't enjoy the ride, you probably chose wrong, even if you were Floyd or Warshall.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ozymandias

Re: The Secret Lives of Professors (What Being a Professor is Really Like)

#38

Post by ephermata »

anongradstudent wrote: post #28
timr wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same for me. I had a few opportunities for good post-docs, but I just couldn't see the point. I didn't really want to be a professor, and if you don't want to be a prof, a post-doc is just a really low-rent job.

Do you think there's a point to getting a PhD at all? I've been debating dropping out of my PhD program (after one year), mostly for personal reasons, but partially because most grads from my (top N) program end up not being able to land a research or academic position after graduation. If I end up like 95% of the graduates from my program, will it have been a waste of time? Is there any value in a PhD if you do your…

A PhD programme is ideally an opportunity to work on whatever you want, for years, in the company of smart people who are also interested in the same subject. You can use this time to try out different ideas and see if any of them take off. Having that shot is valuable in itself, even if you don't "succeed" with a research position afterwards.

Plus, sometimes new startup ideas, connections, or key skills come out of a PhD. The traditional approach is to found a startup directly from your research, but equally important is the role of PhD projects in helping you identify people who will get things done. If they flake out on helping write an academic paper, what will they do when you're working on a company?

Now sometimes a programme falls short of the ideal. You may end up teaching too much, you may end up working on projects you don't like because the funding is there, and so on. If that's happening, then that is a reason to quit. If you have an incredible opportunity that comes up and isn't compatible with continuing, that's a reason to quit. Just quitting because the grass is greener, though, does not seem like it will work.

Re: The Secret Lives of Professors (What Being a Professor is Really Like)

#39

Post by ephermata »

stoney wrote: post #31
anongradstudent wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you think there's a point to getting a PhD at all? I've been debating dropping out of my PhD program (after one year), mostly for personal reasons, but partially because most grads from my (top N) program end up not being able to land a research or academic position after graduation. If I end up like 95% of the graduates from my program, will it have been a waste of time? Is there any value in a PhD if you do your…

As you said, there is not much in the way of direct financial compensation for having a PhD in industry, but it can act as a foot in the door and it can (depending on the company) mean you get treated a bit differently once you are hired. Researchy type projects tend to get pushed to people who are good at open ended researchy things, and having a PhD is a good indicator of that. For me the biggest value from my PhD…

What settings have you found where you could call yourself "doctor" without someone mistakenly believing you are an MD? The only ones I've found so far are in academia and at work, but in both cases it's not really that much of a boost. (At work everyone more or less has a PhD.)

Re: The Secret Lives of Professors (What Being a Professor is Really Like)

#40

Post by ephermata »

stoney wrote: post #31
anongradstudent wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you think there's a point to getting a PhD at all? I've been debating dropping out of my PhD program (after one year), mostly for personal reasons, but partially because most grads from my (top N) program end up not being able to land a research or academic position after graduation. If I end up like 95% of the graduates from my program, will it have been a waste of time? Is there any value in a PhD if you do your…

As you said, there is not much in the way of direct financial compensation for having a PhD in industry, but it can act as a foot in the door and it can (depending on the company) mean you get treated a bit differently once you are hired. Researchy type projects tend to get pushed to people who are good at open ended researchy things, and having a PhD is a good indicator of that. For me the biggest value from my PhD…

Yes, that's right, the writing up is key. In addition to spotting holes in arguments, it's good for showing you that you can finish a large sustained project.
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