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A profound apology

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Re: A profound apology

#291

Post by gingerbread-man »

lazyasciiart wrote: post #254
gingerbread-man wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my experience, it isn't the wealthy who think the poor are lazy/irresponsible-- it's the working poor and the lower middle class. The "more conservative half" of the country isn't particularly the wealthier half of the country. Speculating as to why that is would probably overflow this comments section.

I know a lot of well off programmers who absolutely believe that the only reason anyone isn't a well off programmer is laziness and poor character. Don't know how you're making your class divisions, but I certainly wouldn't call them lower middle class or below.

Many lower-middle-class Americans look down on the poor because they see themselves on equal footing, and believe that "If I can work two jobs and make ends meet, so could s/he if s/he had the work ethic."

The most arrogant programmers I know seem to think the exact opposite: that they are among the elite few graced with the gift of true programming intuition. (Not true.) They don't think the poor are lazy, they think the poor are helpless and un-talented.

Re: A profound apology

#292

Post by Hydraulix989 »

gragas wrote: post #167
_xhok wrote: post #124

Here's the conversation that took place: Travis: So we are reducing the number of black cars in the next few months. Fawzi: It’s good. Travis: You probably saw some email. Fawzi: I saw the email [that says] it starts in May. But you’re raising the standards and dropping the prices. Travis: We’re not dropping the prices on Black. Fawzi: But in general. Travis: In general, but we have competitors. Otherwise we’d be out…

I completely agree with Travis and I don't think he did anything wrong. I think it was a bad move on his part to apologize for the video.

He wasn't apologizing to say he was sorry, he was apologizing to try to regain public favor after a very bad public relations disaster.

You see these public statements with fake apologies after PR meltdowns all of the time (BP Oil Spill, ENRON, etc.). It's glorified damage control. I doubt the people whose behalf they are for really feel sorry in any of them.

Re: A profound apology

#293

Post by dowjones »

gingerbread-man wrote: post #202
piyush_soni wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But we have made assholes extremely successful in the past (e.g. Steve Jobs). May be they all just want to follow the trend.

Steve Jobs wasn't just an asshole, he was a phenomenally effective CEO. The problem with Kalanick isn't that he's brusque-- it's that his company isn't making money.

When Steve Jobs was 40, which Travis Kalanick is now, he had been kicked out of the first company he founded (Apple), and his second company (NeXT) was failing miserably. Pretty much everything that Steve is remembered fondly for -- his success at Apple and Pixar -- came after 1995.

Re: A profound apology

#294

Post by Hydraulix989 »

randycupertino wrote: post #239
_xhok wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I spent the last half hour thinking about this on and off, trying to shift my perspective. I feel sort of guilty. Advocating for objectivity and dispassionate truthseeking is the second easiest way to curry favor on HN, and it feels cheap. (The easiest is still outrage, never to be topped anywhere :)) If anything, I find it sort of funny that Travis got mad. He handled it pretty well at first; they were just having a…

The whole thing reminds me of when Tommy Carcetti becoming mayor scene from the Wire. The old outgoing mayor is giving him some advice and he basically explains that when you're mayor you have to smile and eat shit from everybody- the unions, the lobbyists, the press, the teachers, the churches... and smile and act gracious while you're doing it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VjzqO6UOPFQ Travis should have just smi…

Even then, at some point, you're off stage so to speak when it comes to managing that "impression" for others. You can't always be fake all the time, it gets draining.

Re: A profound apology

#295

Post by epmaybe »

Jaruzel wrote: post #287
zapu wrote: post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder why this is getting downvotes. There is a lot of insight about the situation in the linked comment.

Except it's not linked. It's an unclickable relative URL. Also, if I wanted to read about this on Reddit, I'd be over on Reddit. I'm here because I want to read the comments from HN users.

That second point doesn't really make sense to me. You're reading links submitted on hacker news by other readers, isn't this basically the same thing?

An HN user is telling you that he read something that was particularly useful to the conversation at hand and wanted to share it, what's wrong with that?

Re: A profound apology

#296

Post by gingerbread-man »

dnautics wrote: post #263
gingerbread-man wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Out of curiousity, what do you think could have caused the driver to go bankrupt? It sounds like he bought an expensive, UberBlack-eligible car, intending to pay for it with his fares, but the fares were reduced and now he can't make the payments. How common is that scenario amongst Uber drivers? If Uber drivers are, in fact, independent contractors, then they have some responsibility to determine whether the busines…

it's not just the fare reduction, it's also the loss in business as customers stopped using UberBlack in favor of UberX. Having driven for Uber and Lyft for a year and a half (even during the "good years") - the rate of new hires was most definitely a major concern and there were definitely rocky times. I was lucky to be able to mitigate this by moving to San Francisco from San Diego. While in San Diego I saw my take…

Recognizing that you may not have been the prototypical Uber driver, I'm curious what kind of research/ evaluation (if any) you did before/ while driving for them re: the financial prospect. How much did you "take home" after gas, repairs, taxes, etc...? Did you have an estimate of that beforehand?

My suspicion is that many people who begin driving for Uber overestimate their net earnings and underestimate their deferred expenses e.g. vehicle depreciation and maintenance. If Uber knows this and is taking advantage (with new-driver bonuses, etc...), they're essentially a multi-level marketing company.

Re: A profound apology

#297

Post by pyrale »

yazaddaruvala wrote: post #280
dnautics wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it was unreasonable to consider a $97K car as a business expenditure was such a bad idea. Let's say you get a 5-year loan, liberally that's about $30k a year, which is more than covered by the cost and business that Uber (UberBlack) was generating at the time; Until of course the volume of UberBlack got eaten into by the presence of UberX on top of fare cuts.

Making the correct short-term business decision without fully understanding the long-term market forces in that domain, can still be a bad long-term decision. It is the business owner's (investor's) responsibility to understand and plan for the long-term. Not planning for the long-term is exactly what happened here. I do not believe this man should have been disrespected, however, his decision to buy a car he could n…

So you're saying making sound decisions regarding driving for Uber requires good economic skills, long-term planning capabilities aswell as insider information regarding Uber's policy ?

This sounds like an unrealistic expectation. One would argue Uber was either disloyal or disillusioned if they rely on such people to advance their business.

Re: A profound apology

#298

Post by gingerbread-man »

dowjones wrote: post #293
gingerbread-man wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Steve Jobs wasn't just an asshole, he was a phenomenally effective CEO. The problem with Kalanick isn't that he's brusque-- it's that his company isn't making money.

When Steve Jobs was 40, which Travis Kalanick is now, he had been kicked out of the first company he founded (Apple), and his second company (NeXT) was failing miserably. Pretty much everything that Steve is remembered fondly for -- his success at Apple and Pixar -- came after 1995.

> Pretty much everything that Steve is remembered fondly for -- his success at Apple and Pixar -- came after 1995.

I strongly disagree. I think Steve is more remembered for the Macintosh than for the iMac/iPod/iPhone/iPad, at least amongst HN readers and the like.

Re: A profound apology

#299

Post by LargeCompanies »

dang wrote: post #265
LargeCompanies wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Weird I have said the exact same stuff and I get massively downvoted for calling KalaDick an asshole. He needs to step down he is so stupidly arrogant he is getting what he deserves and I hope worse. He has no humility (he hit the luck jackpot) only stupidity and arrogance!!! Hated him and Uber ever since they let my account get hacked and 1k stolen from me for a ride in London. Their response was it's the users faul…

We've banned this account for repeatedly violating the HN guidelines.

Huh the parent called KalaDick an asshole and doesn't get called out????

Why the double standard????

All my negative comments are about Uber as I tried for ten years with startups and did not have the same luck as this arrogant stupid piece of crap! His lack of humility really makes my blood boil as when this nice guy tried he ran into Google inviting him out to demo/talk business only to have them squash me and other similar extreme highs then lows.

Re: A profound apology

#300

Post by coldtea »

morgante wrote: post #242
acjohnson55 wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And yet many in that same half have no problem scapegoating Latinos, blacks, Muslims, liberals, China, or pretty much anyone that's not themselves.

So maybe "some people" is actually most people. In fact, I'd say Travis is 100% correct. Most people out there would rather blame someone else for their problems than take personal responsibility.

>Most people out there would rather blame someone else for their problems than take personal responsibility.

And why not? There are 8 billion people out there, and one of you. And tons of people who came before the person was even born and shaped the place one was born in, were responsible for their childhood, designed their education programs etc. And of course others are in power and shape policy.

Who is more likely to have created/sustain the situations affecting someone? Themselves or the tons of others?

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