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JPMorgan Software Does in Seconds What Took Lawyers Many Hours

bloomberg.com

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Re: JPMorgan Software Does in Seconds What Took Lawyers Many Hours

#11

Post by adamqureshi »

ams6110 wrote: post #6
ycombinete wrote: post #5

This makes me wonder if we'll be entering a legal world that's complex to the degree that only computers can understand it.

And a world where if your contract does not meet with the approval of the computer, you are screwed with no recourse just like you are when Paypal decides to freeze your account because one of their algos detected "fraud"

it happ to me. I called them. they said there is nothing you or your buyer did / can do. When i asked PP what the heck is it? they said to me: "Concentrated buyer exposure" I got the buyer on the phone with PP and me. PP said only option is for me to refund buyer then be paid outside PP OR wait for 90 days then i can access my money. It was the first time this ever happ to me, i set up stripe the very next day and am very happy. Not doing PP. Algo's have NO compassion or ANY contextual understanding of why the buyer is paying me ( this case was past invoices, paid in 1 shot like 4 ) guy on the phone , first thing he did was read his PP "script" this conversation can be recorded. What a PITA. He could do "jack" and "shit" to help me. Its my money. How could PP just freeze my money without recourse? WHO reads the FINE print?

Re: JPMorgan Software Does in Seconds What Took Lawyers Many Hours

#12

Post by tehlike »

raverbashing wrote: post #9
tluyben2 wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> when Paypal decides to freeze your account because one of their algos detected "fraud" Even thinking about the times that happened to my company brings red in front of my eyes. Not many companies are that bad luckily. Google adsense/adwords comes close.

Blaming the algo is a nice cop-out by Google and Paypal and on top of that they can afford canning their customer without many issues for them But how much is that going to cost them over long term instead of having actual thinking people reviewing the cases remains to be seen

come on. there are >6b people on earth, with many many fraudsters trying to make money at other people's expense. It's a problem that has to be automated sooner or later.

Computers are also much faster in fraud detection. You use your credit card at some store that you have never been, at an odd hour, and your bank triggers a fraud lock, and declines the transaction. That's efficiency. When there are billions of transactions occurring every day, of course a small error rate will reflect itself on a large number of false positives.

PS: goog employee, but i appreciate fraud detection a lot (especially when it comes to how easy it is to leak SSN in this country, and how useful it is for obtaining credits)

Edit: fact check. there aren't 6b people using computers obviously.

Re: JPMorgan Software Does in Seconds What Took Lawyers Many Hours

#13

Post by jacquesm »

tehlike wrote: post #12
raverbashing wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Blaming the algo is a nice cop-out by Google and Paypal and on top of that they can afford canning their customer without many issues for them But how much is that going to cost them over long term instead of having actual thinking people reviewing the cases remains to be seen

come on. there are >6b people on earth, with many many fraudsters trying to make money at other people's expense. It's a problem that has to be automated sooner or later. Computers are also much faster in fraud detection. You use your credit card at some store that you have never been, at an odd hour, and your bank triggers a fraud lock, and declines the transaction. That's efficiency. When there are billions of tran…

> That's efficiency. When there are billions of transactions occurring every day, of course a small error rate will reflect itself on a large number of false positives.

Yes, coupled with excellent customer service that sounds like a good plan.

Unfortunately your employer seems to have decided that customer service is something they can't afford.

Re: JPMorgan Software Does in Seconds What Took Lawyers Many Hours

#14

Post by tehlike »

jacquesm wrote: post #13
tehlike wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

come on. there are >6b people on earth, with many many fraudsters trying to make money at other people's expense. It's a problem that has to be automated sooner or later. Computers are also much faster in fraud detection. You use your credit card at some store that you have never been, at an odd hour, and your bank triggers a fraud lock, and declines the transaction. That's efficiency. When there are billions of tran…

> That's efficiency. When there are billions of transactions occurring every day, of course a small error rate will reflect itself on a large number of false positives. Yes, coupled with excellent customer service that sounds like a good plan. Unfortunately your employer seems to have decided that customer service is something they can't afford.

definitely google is not known for super good customer service, I will give you that.

Re: JPMorgan Software Does in Seconds What Took Lawyers Many Hours

#16

Post by [deleted] »

F_J_H wrote: post #3

You've likely heard the quote that "every company is a technology company", mostly used in the context of companies needing to be doing everything they can to leverage and exploit new technology, or they'll be left in the dust by more proactive competitors. With that in mind, a key quote for me in the article was this: >To help spur internal disruption, the company keeps tabs on 2,000 technology ventures, using about…

[deleted]

Re: JPMorgan Software Does in Seconds What Took Lawyers Many Hours

#17

Post by flat6turbo »

F_J_H wrote: post #3

You've likely heard the quote that "every company is a technology company", mostly used in the context of companies needing to be doing everything they can to leverage and exploit new technology, or they'll be left in the dust by more proactive competitors. With that in mind, a key quote for me in the article was this: >To help spur internal disruption, the company keeps tabs on 2,000 technology ventures, using about…

isn't that what the CIO is responsible for?

Re: JPMorgan Software Does in Seconds What Took Lawyers Many Hours

#18

Post by isubkhankulov »

> Not all of those bets, which include several projects based on a distributed ledger, like blockchain, will pay off, which JPMorgan says is OK. One example executives are fond of mentioning: The firm built an electronic platform to help trade credit-default swaps that sits unused.

so it looks like JPM might have written off "blockchain"?

Re: JPMorgan Software Does in Seconds What Took Lawyers Many Hours

#19

Post by TazeTSchnitzel »

minikites wrote: post #15
TazeTSchnitzel wrote: post #8

Laws resemble computer programs in many ways, so I suppose it is only natural that computers be made to interpret them.

The edge cases for people under such laws are much more serious than most computer edge cases.

Indeed. That's probably why in some jurisdictions, decisions are not allowed to be blindly made by computers exclusively.
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