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I am an Uber survivor

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Re: I am an Uber survivor

#791

Post by travmatt »

everybodyknows wrote: post #390
tyre wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who else could hire the investigators? It's a tricky problem, but ultimately you rely on the investigators caring more about their reputation than any one contract. If it gets out that firm X doesn't do objective reviews, then future companies in hot water won't hire them. The real challenge here is that these investigators are not independent. Eric Holder has done prior work on behalf of Uber, which means he could r…

Yes, the investigator's _reputation_ is put at stake. But, reputation in the eyes of whom? 1. The public at large, who want to see standards of civic probity upheld? Or, 2. Future clients, who will want value for their money? Delivering #2 requires writing up a designed narrative, in magisterial rhetoric. A narrative that hides all the dirt that isn't likely to come out anyway, and redirects culpability toward low-ra…

Eric 'too big to fail' Holder defined his career on #2.

Re: I am an Uber survivor

#792

Post by metaphorm »

grandalf wrote: post #360

I think the bottom line is that some founders believe that you have to tolerate abusive personalities in order to hire the best. I had a person on my team once who I did not hire but who had a reputation for being one of the smartest and most capable engineers. As his new manager, I expected that I'd soon promote him. But then I saw that he treated others on the team very poorly and often said highly inappropriate se…

I think the bottom line is that some founders ARE abusive personalities and hire people like themselves.

Re: I am an Uber survivor

#793

Post by mememachine »

dang wrote: post #726
mememachine wrote: post #254

>I wonder (doubt) if they've ever been abused. It's hard for someone who has been abused to come forward, let alone stand up to an abuser. If they dont stand up for themselves on any level, then they simply arent being abused i dont believe. If you cant express your own discomfort, its not anyone but your fault youre uncomfortable. This is a hard truth. (copied from my other comment in this thread) I'll give you a cl…

We've banned this account for trolling. We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13748377 and marked it off-topic.

I'm actually not trolling... I was making a real effort to have a genuine discussion here believe it or not. To be honest I'm not sure what I did wrong, and I'm definitely not pleased with this result.

Re: I am an Uber survivor

#794

Post by metaphorm »

voodooranger wrote: post #624

I consider the HN community to be one of the most thoughtful I've found on the web, yet am stunned by how quickly a righteous mob is formed based on an anonymous, cartoonish, and IMO barely plausible account of what it's like to work for a large US tech company. Having spent years working at multiple SV tech companies, where even the slightest tinge of a racist or sexist affront would land you in an office in front o…

the whole point is that Uber is _not at all_ like a typical US tech company. it seems to be much much much worse, and that is what is shocking to discover.

Re: I am an Uber survivor

#795

Post by acjohnson55 »

mkolodny wrote: post #630
Redditshill wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As skeptical as I am with Uber, I'm still hoping that something will come up with the investigation. It also encourages me that more people are speaking up. The more bad press they get, the more pressure they'll have to have their "investigations" result in some discipline.

I work at Uber. What happened to Susan Fowler and Amy is terrible. To give another side of the Uber story, I've seen nothing but respect on my team of ~25 engineers. Only a few of us are women, but also only a few of us are the "white male" stereotype that you see in the press. Everyone I've talked to on my team is aware of and upset about the lack of female engineers in tech. I saw Uber's CTO (Thuan Pham, a Vietname…

As I've pointed out elsewhere, Arianna's former chief of staff and managing editor, Jimmy Soni, was accused of exactly this sort of behavior [1]. In my circle there, those allegations were considered to be highly credible. And given the hush-hush departure, it doesn't seem to me like there was any real accountability.

http://gawker.com/top-huffington-post-editor-was-investigate...

Re: I am an Uber survivor

#796

Post by deanCommie »

rl3 wrote: post #708
deanCommie wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would someone read this whole post, and the main takeway they get from it - enough to post a hackernews comment - is to question the poster's claims of interest in anonymity. (And - let's be honest - therefore trying to discredit her whole story one chip at a time). People like you are the problem.

> People like you are the problem. Not exactly healthy discourse.

People have had a decade to get used to the idea of institutional discrimination, unconscious biases, unintentional discrimination and sexism.

I don't expect the average rural Trump voter to have become aware and gain an in-depth understanding of these concepts over that time, but well-educated, well-connected, big-city techies that frequent hackernews have NO EXCUSE.

There is no room for healthy discourse when the default reaction from so much of the privileged side is to pick apart, dismiss, and discredit.

If your instinct when you hear a woman coming forward with stories of sexism in the tech industry is anything but to listen, understand, and empathize, you are part of the cause, not the solution.

Re: I am an Uber survivor

#797

Post by alexandercrohde »

voodooranger wrote: post #624

I consider the HN community to be one of the most thoughtful I've found on the web, yet am stunned by how quickly a righteous mob is formed based on an anonymous, cartoonish, and IMO barely plausible account of what it's like to work for a large US tech company. Having spent years working at multiple SV tech companies, where even the slightest tinge of a racist or sexist affront would land you in an office in front o…

I'm downvoting this not because of the point it makes but because of the nature of the language. I think even though it's your legal right to express us-vs-them mentality "down-voting groupthink brigade", ad-hominem attacks "morally superior posturing", "outraged, self-righteous mob" I don't think it's a valuable contribution to this discussion.

This type of language is intentionally attempts to provoke emotion, which in turn reduces the ability for the community to collectively find truth. It sounds like perhaps you've had some anecdotal experiences where you feel like you're the victim of Pc-police, but if you want to convince anyone I recommend you share the data-points of your experience rather than play to emotions.

Re: I am an Uber survivor

#798

Post by jordache »

Not having been in the silicone valley culture, I'm wondering how does racism typically work in that environment, given a disproportionate percentage of the work force are asian and south asian.

Re: I am an Uber survivor

#799

Post by btilly »

ForHackernews wrote: post #770
btilly wrote: post #437

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My stated belief was that there are greater than even odds that it is propaganda. Propaganda is a form of spam. Even worse, propaganda is a particularly nasty form of spam since it tries to alter your belief system such that future propaganda will seem more reasonable to you. Therefore maintaining a keen sense of what is possible propaganda is very important. A healthy brain should immediately try to verify anything…

Oh no, propaganda that might alter our belief system into respecting female employees! Better reject that out of hand...

There are always two sides to a story. Having everyone believe the woman because she is a woman is a short road to seeing the system abused. Ever seen a false accusation of sexual harassment? I have.

The more important the cause, and the more serious the claim, the more important it is to proceed carefully and not rush to conclusions.

Re: I am an Uber survivor

#800

Post by Arizhel »

in_cahoots wrote: post #505
enraged_camel wrote: post #379

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>I really don't think misogyny or harassment is connected to nerdy-ness or introversion/extroversion, in either direction. When was the last time you witnessed an introverted/nerdy person proposition a coworker, or even a female friend, for sex? Or even a date? Introverts by definition aren't socially aggressive. They also tend to not hang out with socially aggressive people, from whom they could learn such attitude…

That's not the definition of introvert at all, you're using it as a proxy to mean shy or even socially awkward. Introverts have sex and date too. Using your logic (which I don't necessarily agree with) I could argue that they are more likely to feel frustrated with a lack of options, and to abuse any power they do have. Anecdotally, most of the harassment I have seen (in academia at least) has come from introverts --…

>That's not the definition of introvert at all, you're using it as a proxy to mean shy or even socially awkward. Introverts have sex and date too.

Huh? Don't be ridiculous: shy and socially awkward people have sex and date too. Just not as much as people who aren't socially awkward or shy, because they obviously have a more difficult time establishing a relationship. But it's not like they never do (well maybe some of them never do...).

You have a good point about some bad behavior coming from introverts (staring at chests, drunken propositions), but it's my allegation that this is very different from the harassment like we're seeing at places like Uber, where there's a rampant culture of harassment, and it's right out in the open. The introvert harassment you talk about is more individual and less obvious, not something egged on and cheered by the group. And as you point out, the introvert actions are defended by claiming ignorance ("I didn't know it'd make her uncomfortable"), whereas the Uber actions are at another level entirely (managers openly groping female employees--check out today's big news about Kay and Jared jewelers for stuff that makes even Uber look like saints).

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