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I am an Uber survivor

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Re: I am an Uber survivor

#591

Post by gkya »

_yosefk wrote: post #363
macsj200 wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What specifically is the move forward here, though? I suppose hn as a community has the power to boycott applying to the company, but how else can we drive internal change from an external position? Uninstalling the app and simply choosing to use a competitor's services are another option, but sapping the entire organization of revenue seems like it would hurt drivers and developers at least as much as management, if…

OK Cupid blocked Firefox, a non-profit with less questionable business practices than most tech companies and certainly Uber, over Eich's quiet private donation which ought to be a smaller deal than systematic sexual harassment with consequences for victims instead of perpetrators (although the donation was proven while the harassment is alleged; I doubt this tips the scales of public sentiment though.) The overall r…

The two cases are incomparable. What happened to Eich was injustice, as in a democratic state, he is (read: is supposed to be) free about supporting whatever idea he wants. We might not like it, yet "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." What happened was hypocrisy pure, and OkCupid got some positive PR from the situation. In a world where this sort of stuff works, we'll quickly end up with Inquisition and witch-hunts, reversed.

WRT Uber, their business model is shady to begin with, and that's not the only shady thing about them. Yet, the post is anonymous, and sincere though it sounds, nobody can be sure that the allegations are true. If cost of a lawsuit is the concern, I believe there are many organisations out there who'd help with the case.

Re: I am an Uber survivor

#592

Post by st3v3r »

FireBeyond wrote: post #468
stale2002 wrote: post #414

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are they going to do? Sue you? This stuff is hard to prosecute. And if they start prosecuting... well... then their sexual harassment behavior will be made public.

Unfortunately, as but one option, yes. Assuming it gets to that. Your tape won't see the light of the courtroom because it'll be ruled inadmissible (fruits of the poisoned tree). It'll be sealed by the court over the felony hearing because it contains statements that could be materially damaging to be released (that the person said them is not in question, unfortunately, more their 'expectations', right or wrong, whe…

It might not see the courtroom, but you can be damn sure it will see the front page of TechCrunch, The Verge, the New York Times, etc.

I think public opinion backlash would be far too great for Uber to do anything about that but tuck their tail inbetween their legs and whimper away.

Re: I am an Uber survivor

#593

Post by Kalium »

stouset wrote: post #548
gradstudent wrote: post #302

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What I really want to see is the other 20 men on her team tell their bosses to cut that shit out. You're being surprisingly lenient in your assessment here. I'd argue they need to tell their bosses to fuck off and find another job .

I don't disagree, but consider that many of these engineers are sitting on illiquid stock options valued at millions to tens of millions of dollars. You're asking people to stand up for what's right when it may cost them millions of dollars of incentives and the loss of years of their life in career investment. That doesn't make it right to look the other way when these kind of abuses occur, but is it any wonder that…

It's always easy to ask someone else to make a significant sacrifice for the sake of your moral code. It's much harder to do so yourself.

Re: I am an Uber survivor

#594

Post by shawnee_ »

Rock the boat, people. You are a part of your company's culture: not an observer of it, not a victim of it.

From an article I wrote a couple years ago:

"My two cents for the conversation is pretty simple: there are only two different kinds of humans in the world: Those who actively exploit women, and those who actively speak out against the exploitation of women. Keeping your mouth shut for fear of rocking the boat -- this is a form of apathy all its own." http://ink.hackeress.com/2015/01/why-im-boat-rocker.html

Re: I am an Uber survivor

#595

Post by dragonwriter »

EpicEng wrote: post #570
vonmoltke wrote: post #276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> AG is not a political office, and he's not a politician. AG is a Presidential appointment with Congressional confirmation. While those appointed are not necessarily politicians, it is most certainly a political position.

It is most certainly not. By your definition any appointee is a 'political position'. That term has a real meaning in the circles which matter (i.e., politics), and AG is not considered a political position. That's not to say an AG is completely separate from political realities, but the office is (supposed to be) non-partisan.

> By your definition any appointee is a 'political position'.

Direct Presidential appointees are absolutely political; cabinet members more than most.

> That term has a real meaning in the circles which matter (i.e., politics), and AG is not considered a political position.

It actually has a fairly vague and shifting meaning even within politics, but by virtually any of them the Attorney-General is very much a political position.

Re: I am an Uber survivor

#596

Post by andreyf »

shawnee_ wrote: post #594

Rock the boat, people. You are a part of your company's culture: not an observer of it, not a victim of it. From an article I wrote a couple years ago: "My two cents for the conversation is pretty simple: there are only two different kinds of humans in the world: Those who actively exploit women, and those who actively speak out against the exploitation of women. Keeping your mouth shut for fear of rocking the boat -…

This can be generalized to similar spectrum in quite a few domains: those who fear of rocking the boat on one end and those who do it without good reason. Part of working in a larger organization is the politics of knowing when the right time to speak up and make change is. I kind of wish I was working at Uber right now because now is the time for them.

Re: I am an Uber survivor

#597

Post by Tycho »

jastingo wrote: post #257

I'm not in the business of defending Uber - quite the contrary - but reading through the comments it seems that most people are assuming that this post by an anonymous person is 100% true. These types of posts are worrying to me. Why could this post not have been crafted by someone at Lyft? Or one of Uber's many other detractors? Given the PR nightmare that Uber is in why not pile on while the public seems primed for…

I wouldn't be surprised if this was fake. It seemed to hit on too many talking points and buzzwords. It has a "too good to be true" feel to it.

Re: I am an Uber survivor

#598

Post by pfooti »

tyre wrote: post #210

I'm really happy she felt comfortable doing this. What an incredibly brave and strong person—I can't imagine what she must be feeling. What I really want to see is the other 20 men on her team tell their bosses to cut that shit out. We cannot rely on the abused to stand up for themselves; for every one who does there are thousands who cannot. It is on every one of us to report abhorrent behaviour, even if we think so…

This is the part that really hits me. When, in a meeting, Mike#2 says to "stop being a whiny little bitch", and he's not fired on the spot, something is not just wrong with Mike#2, something is systemically wrong.

I don't work in Regular Tech (I'm in a teacher-education nonprofit), so I'm not as exposed to the SV bro culture. I'd like to think I'd speak up and fight for people who are marginalized in my workplace. I wonder if I actually would. It's so easy to be quiet, laugh it off, and go back to your daily, if it's not you.

Re: I am an Uber survivor

#599

Post by laughinghan »

walterstucco wrote: post #420
jakobegger wrote: post #376

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everyone believes the story because it sounds plausible. It's not the first time we've heard of very bad culture at Uber, and it fits the ways they have been reported to treat their drivers, etc. Most of the women who left Uber didn't publicly announce why they did. Now we're seeing a plausible explanation.

As much as I oppose to Uber philosophy, technology.and their work and HR policies (I even think it's dangerous for the future of mobility), I still think plausible is not enough for news to be news. It's merely enough for bar stories. I respect so much journalism that I don't want enough, I want facts, names, proofs and the smocking gun.

Do you also believe Hacker News comments should be held to the standards of journalism, and people on Hacker News shouldn't even discuss something unless there are facts, names, proofs, and the smoking gun?

No, reputable news sources shouldn't (and don't) publish claims like these without substantiation. But I don't see a problem with HN commenters discussing claims like these even though this is all we have to go on. And I don't see how that's an argument against its fundamental plausibility, which is what your parent comment discusses.

Re: I am an Uber survivor

#600

Post by tehwebguy »

rapfaria wrote: post #445
TorKlingberg wrote: post #306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.

Agreed, and I'm not defending Mike#2 in any way, but good men perhaps have children. Mortgage. Family plans and life goals. It's a really shitty situation. Perhaps evil triumphs if great men do nothing?

The bar for "good" is lowered when there is money on the line?
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