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I am an Uber survivor

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Re: I am an Uber survivor

#581

Post by steveplace »

UncleMeat wrote: post #481
lr4444lr wrote: post #462

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But the OP's point stands generally: If this were a smear campaign by a competing company, how different would it look? I sympathize greatly with Ms. Fowler not least because she put her reputation out there and claimed to have documentation of the specific offenses, which a decently respectable journalism outfit like the NYTimes could fact-check. Fowler's story could be exaggerated, but I have reasonable doubt that…

It just seems surprising to many of us that this skepticism only seems to crop up in situations surrounding racial or gender discrimination.

Reactionary contrarian skepticism is kinda the MO of hacker news comments.

Re: I am an Uber survivor

#582

Post by laughinghan »

lr4444lr wrote: post #566
enraged_camel wrote: post #547

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These women are victims of harassment and abuse. It seems very unfair to expect them to also put their personal reputation on the line before we finally take them seriously. That's a very high bar to clear and it's the reason why so few women speak out publicly. That's why we must encourage, not discourage, anonymous disclosures, and give them the benefit of the doubt.

I have a strong allegiance to the American justice principles of innocent until proven guilty beyond reasonable doubt, right to face one's accuser in open court, cross examination, and standards of evidence. So much so that I apply it to judging controversial current events like this. Much as I might dislike putting a powerful entity like Uber into the defendant's chair with those attendant protections, These princip…

I understand where you're coming from; I don't think you've made enough of an effort to understand where your parent is coming from, your focus is entirely on how wrong you feel your parent is.

Of course the criminal justice system must abide by the principles of due process. Simultaneously, if someone anonymously expresses great suffering, we are of course under an ethical obligation to take them seriously, offer them our compassion, and take action based on what we can substantiate.

Re: I am an Uber survivor

#583

Post by flamedoge »

rapfaria wrote: post #445
TorKlingberg wrote: post #306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.

Agreed, and I'm not defending Mike#2 in any way, but good men perhaps have children. Mortgage. Family plans and life goals. It's a really shitty situation. Perhaps evil triumphs if great men do nothing?

Well it's great for them to have those, but they gotta do more for me to consider them as good. In my eyes, they're just looking out for themselves and their family.

Re: I am an Uber survivor

#584

Post by st3v3r »

relics443 wrote: post #494

I have friend who is an engineering middle manager at Uber. I was having drinks with him and some of his direct reports (including 2 women), and they all told me that they've never experienced or heard of any of this behavior until recently. Obviously that's anecdata (although it has the benefit of me knowing that it's true, as opposed to Amy's story), but I think people are jumping to conclusions here. It seems that…

I wouldn't be willing to admit that I had seen that, or had experienced that in front of my direct manager. Especially given what happened to those who did try to report.

Re: I am an Uber survivor

#585

Post by jacquesm »

EpicEng wrote: post #570
vonmoltke wrote: post #276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> AG is not a political office, and he's not a politician. AG is a Presidential appointment with Congressional confirmation. While those appointed are not necessarily politicians, it is most certainly a political position.

It is most certainly not. By your definition any appointee is a 'political position'. That term has a real meaning in the circles which matter (i.e., politics), and AG is not considered a political position. That's not to say an AG is completely separate from political realities, but the office is (supposed to be) non-partisan.

> That's not to say an AG is completely separate from political realities, but the office is (supposed to be) non-partisan.

That must be why Trump fired Sally Yates then...

/s

Really, it's about as political as it gets. Or did you think Jeff Sessions would so much as be looked at under a Democratic president?

Re: I am an Uber survivor

#586

Post by Aeolun »

wvenable wrote: post #493
tyre wrote: post #210

I'm really happy she felt comfortable doing this. What an incredibly brave and strong person—I can't imagine what she must be feeling. What I really want to see is the other 20 men on her team tell their bosses to cut that shit out. We cannot rely on the abused to stand up for themselves; for every one who does there are thousands who cannot. It is on every one of us to report abhorrent behaviour, even if we think so…

> What I really want to see is the other 20 men on her team tell their bosses to cut that shit out. It sounds like the abuse is pretty universal, from the article: "It was normal for guys to refer to other guys as fags when they didn't participate in private parties where sex and drugs were involved." The 20 other men on her team were probably as concerned with keeping their job and not being abused. The big differen…

Trying to fight against bullying takes 300% of the effort it takes to bully :/

Re: I am an Uber survivor

#587

Post by Trundle »

enraged_camel wrote: post #547
lr4444lr wrote: post #462

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But the OP's point stands generally: If this were a smear campaign by a competing company, how different would it look? I sympathize greatly with Ms. Fowler not least because she put her reputation out there and claimed to have documentation of the specific offenses, which a decently respectable journalism outfit like the NYTimes could fact-check. Fowler's story could be exaggerated, but I have reasonable doubt that…

These women are victims of harassment and abuse. It seems very unfair to expect them to also put their personal reputation on the line before we finally take them seriously. That's a very high bar to clear and it's the reason why so few women speak out publicly. That's why we must encourage, not discourage, anonymous disclosures, and give them the benefit of the doubt.

To give anonymous accusations of harassment and abuse the benefit of the doubt is to believe that someone is an abuser without evidence to. Given the effect that this can have on a persons life I don't believe it should be encouraged at all. It's guilty until proven innocent.

Re: I am an Uber survivor

#588

Post by flamedoge »

dosgonlogs wrote: post #448
Arizhel wrote: post #351

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I really don't think misogyny or harassment is connected to nerdy-ness or introversion/extroversion, in either direction. I completely disagree. Stereotypically nerdy, shy, introverted men are not going to be extremely aggressive towards women in social settings; that's why they stereotypically have such a hard time getting dates: they're not even comfortable talking to women. They're certainly not going to be touch…

what in the actual? Let's not reinforce dim-witted stereotypes. There are all kinds of people. I have met the Socially Awkward, introverted, nerdy, absolute jerk prick asshole programmer as well. The type that attempts to anonymously create hentai comics of female coworkers. Nerdy men can and do become "High Performing Managers" they just use email more.

what the actual.

>anonymously create hentai comics of female coworkers

who goes out of their way to do that

Re: I am an Uber survivor

#589

Post by grandalf »

iamcasen wrote: post #522
grandalf wrote: post #360

I think the bottom line is that some founders believe that you have to tolerate abusive personalities in order to hire the best. I had a person on my team once who I did not hire but who had a reputation for being one of the smartest and most capable engineers. As his new manager, I expected that I'd soon promote him. But then I saw that he treated others on the team very poorly and often said highly inappropriate se…

I'll be real with you. I worked at Uber for a while. I never noticed any sexual harassment while I was there, but what I did notice was that the company culture was quite excellent until the number of employees got up to 1000 or so. It wasn't until there were many layers of management that things got shitty. I left once the culture no longer felt friendly. I haven't spoken to Travis in quite a few years now, but I fi…

Thanks for sharing your experience.

Re: I am an Uber survivor

#590

Post by dosgonlogs »

flamedoge wrote: post #588
dosgonlogs wrote: post #448

Earlier quoted context omitted.

what in the actual? Let's not reinforce dim-witted stereotypes. There are all kinds of people. I have met the Socially Awkward, introverted, nerdy, absolute jerk prick asshole programmer as well. The type that attempts to anonymously create hentai comics of female coworkers. Nerdy men can and do become "High Performing Managers" they just use email more.

what the actual. >anonymously create hentai comics of female coworkers who goes out of their way to do that

People who revel in making other people feel creeped out and violated.
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