Live data from Hacker News

Tesla Tanks After Goldman Downgrades to Sell

bloomberg.com

61–70 of 89 posts

Re: Tesla Tanks After Goldman Downgrades to Sell

#61
I'm not generally a conspiracy theorist, but Trump is friends with the oil & gas industry, Tesla and the gigafactories are a direct threat to that industry, and GS is embedded deeply in this administration.

Tesla is doing what we as a world should be promoting, that is to stop pushing oil & gas exploration and pushing sustainable energies.

There is an energy war. Tesla is doing better than anyone expected from a science perspective. There is a lot of money at stake in oil, gas, coal, and electricity (in its current form).

I expect this administration to drop the EC subsidies at some point, but retain the O&G exploration subsidies.

The Koch brothers are probably somewhere in this mix as well.

Re: Tesla Tanks After Goldman Downgrades to Sell

#62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think Elon has accomplished a lot, but I think you're ignoring the fact that every one of his companies is still surprisingly risky. Tesla might not get another loan and it could go under in a year. SpaceX has fantastic margins, but they still have significant hurdles with failed launches (although this is true of rocketry in general) and navigating a political landscape. Solar City was going under when Elon saved…

you're avoiding the question. Name someone else that has done more impressive things than what Elon has already accomplished.

Sure. Alistair Pilkington and Arthur Fowle, between the two of them invented the technologies used to create almost all glass. It might not seem like it's high impact, but from the glass in office buildings, to automotive glass, to smartphone/tablet/TV glass, two highly impactful people who touched more than Elon Musk has.

Allan Alcorn invented Pong. It spawned and inspired an industry that grew to almost $100 billion, and the technologies used in video games have spread, again, to every aspect of technology, to the point that Microsoft used Cortana, a video game character, to leverage name/brand recognition with gamers in one if it's core products.

Bill Gates, for better or worse, transformed the personal computing industry, and has been on a humanitarian campaign for the last several years.

Setting aside food supply management politics, Robert Fraley introduced the first work on transgenic foods and continues to be a strong contributor to modern food science.

Norman Borlaug. "and is credited with saving over a billion people worldwide from starvation" is the best introduction a human could have. If you don't know who he is or what he did, you owe it to yourself to learn more :)

Moving on to relative contemporaries:

Linus Torvalds made Linux, which as you may have heard, has impacted technology a bit.

Tim Berners-Lee and Robert Cailliau basically invented the web and inspired the modern web.

On the tech and financial side, Mark Zuckerberg has done quite well with Facebook, and for better or worse is driving connectivity into unconnected parts of the world.

Elon Musk is a visionary, and is pretty cool, but he is not exactly once-in-a-generation.

Re: Tesla Tanks After Goldman Downgrades to Sell

#63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

please name some of these people who have been as or more successful - and don't go by wealth alone. I'm talking disrupting multiple, huge industries with innovative products.

I think Elon has accomplished a lot, but I think you're ignoring the fact that every one of his companies is still surprisingly risky. Tesla might not get another loan and it could go under in a year. SpaceX has fantastic margins, but they still have significant hurdles with failed launches (although this is true of rocketry in general) and navigating a political landscape. Solar City was going under when Elon saved…

An alternative to NASA is an odd and incorrect way of describing SpaceX. NASA is a customer to SpaceX, there is no intention of being a NASA alternative. You could say they want to be an alternative/competitor to the aerospace and defense contractors though

Re: Tesla Tanks After Goldman Downgrades to Sell

#64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Norman Borlaug, Marie Curie, Max Planck, Henry Ford, Mahatma Gandhi, Bill Joy, Margaret Hamilton. I could go on.

You are just reinforcing my point. You're listing people that are generations in the past, which is exactly what I said. you're grouping Elon into a once-a-generation / once-a-century type of person.

[deleted]

Re: Tesla Tanks After Goldman Downgrades to Sell

#65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Tesla will be the most valuable company in the world Slow down there a little bit. They're an AI and battery company. Batteries are commodities and there are several other companies that are working on AI.

Nice of you to take the quote totally out of context. Why didn't you include the words directly before that: "if he keeps going at this pace for another 15 years, there is a very good chance..."

Because that part wasn't relevant. If any company with explosive growth and valuation kept going at that rate for 15 years, they would be the largest company in the world. It's the idea that they'll maintain explosive growth for 15 years selling commodities.

Re: Tesla Tanks After Goldman Downgrades to Sell

#66

Tesla went public on 29 June 2010 [1]. Since then, it has traded 1,677 days. It's average (median) movement, from open to close, is -0.01% (-0.09%). There have been 50 days when Tesla stock fell at least 5% and 53 days where Tesla stock rose at least 5%. So about 6% of the time, historically, it's "tanked" or "boomed" by a similar amount. (By coïncidence, the average >=5% movement is +7.452% while the average Note: t…

I wonder why Bloomberg didn't try to put this drop into perspective, somehow. Surely there are traditional measures of volatility, and they could have presented those. Why didn't they? The simple answer is that bold statements grab more eyeballs, I suppose. But is that all there is to it?

Because news agencies make money from attention not accurate and usable information. Also, financial market movement has so many factors that govern their movement, that in the short term it looks random but, peoples' daily need for news forces them to put a narrative to almost random short term moves.

Now this movement seems clear but, I can't know and verify for sure unless I have a representative sample of trader sentiments to know why they chose to buy or sell the stock that day.

Re: Tesla Tanks After Goldman Downgrades to Sell

#67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Norman Borlaug, Marie Curie, Max Planck, Henry Ford, Mahatma Gandhi, Bill Joy, Margaret Hamilton. I could go on.

You are just reinforcing my point. You're listing people that are generations in the past, which is exactly what I said. you're grouping Elon into a once-a-generation / once-a-century type of person.

Based on how deep you are into the Flavor-aid, I'm going to say that Jim Jones is the best comparison to your hero.

Re: Tesla Tanks After Goldman Downgrades to Sell

#68
It baffles me how all these smart people completely don't get Elon or Tesla.

Maybe it's hard to understand for some that money is not the ultimate motivator? I'm pretty sure that Tesla could be a profitable company today if they stopped all investments and just focused on selling amazing Model S (who needs AP2?) (best car ever made in opinion of many reviewers!). But they're a tech company that happens to make cars (among many other things), not a traditional car company. That's why they should be valued at tech company criteria. They're doing what all the tech "unicorns" are doing - burning through cash by investing in stuff that will give them massive advantage in the future. Why profit when you can grow massively? (hello Gigafactory! hello Solar City!)

Sure, I can see how this is not a company to invest in during daily trade. But it's not a company that ever said it's in it for the quick buck. 10 years ago it was failing in delivery of Roadster. 5 years ago it was failing in delivery of Model S and 2 years ago it was failing in Model X. If you ask me, I'd love to fail on the scale Elon and Tesla fail. Unless something really really random happens, Tesla is not going down anytime soon. Sure, M3 is risky, Solar City deal might be iffy, but I think some of the smartest people in the world are running this company, they're not gonna flip it.

I mean, a chat app aims to be valued at $25bn vs a company that delivered almost 200k feats of engineering in the last 10 years and everyone is laughing at their current valuation of $40bn. What is wrong with the world?

Re: Tesla Tanks After Goldman Downgrades to Sell

#69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> will Elon's web of companies come crashing down when progress on the self-driving front starts to falter? Are you confusing Tesla with Uber? Uber needs self-driving cars to justify its valuation. Tesla doesn't. It just needs production volume. If anything, very near-term self-driving cars might be bad for Tesla because it would reduce aggregate demand for cars.

>Are you confusing Tesla with Uber? No, although I think Uber is in dire straits itself. A lot of laypeople buy Teslas not just because they are electric but because of a general feeling that they "are the future." The self-driving dream goes a long way towards driving this consumer sentiment. If self-driving peters out in the way I suspect it will, Musk/Tesla begin to lose some of their luster. If traditional car br…

Problem is none of those traditional car brands are actually doing that. All they do is show off concept cars at $100k+. Maybe a few more realistic ones from VW but they're all planned way beyond 2020. By that time Tesla will be years ahead and at massive production scale.

Re: Tesla Tanks After Goldman Downgrades to Sell

#70

It baffles me how all these smart people completely don't get Elon or Tesla. Maybe it's hard to understand for some that money is not the ultimate motivator? I'm pretty sure that Tesla could be a profitable company today if they stopped all investments and just focused on selling amazing Model S (who needs AP2?) (best car ever made in opinion of many reviewers!). But they're a tech company that happens to make cars (…

People who work for Goldman aren't that smart - they're just greedy career-diggers who just look for a quick buck. Just google the mountain of lies that was Spinvox.
Post reply on HN