I am an Uber survivor • Hacker News Board

Re: I am an Uber survivor

#301

Post by ryanx435 » Mon, Feb 27, 2017, 10:23 PM UTC

ohyes wrote: post #177

Why aren't any of these shitbags getting named? This type of thing should ruin the guy's career. Fair or not I'm just going to assume Travis and anyone working for him is just like this disgusting mike#2 fellow.

innocent until proven guilty.

this means that we have to hold 2 competing ideas at the same time until due process has been given, like shrodeinger's cat only for justice:

1) the woman is a victim and the "shitbag" should be punished appropriately.

2) the woman is lying and the "shitbag" is a victim of false accusations.

until more details are known, it is possible that the accused is the victim. If this ends up being the correct situation, than having their names smeared in the public eye for crimes they did not commit is morally reprehensible.

Re: I am an Uber survivor

#302

Post by gradstudent » Mon, Feb 27, 2017, 10:23 PM UTC

tyre wrote: post #210

I'm really happy she felt comfortable doing this. What an incredibly brave and strong person—I can't imagine what she must be feeling. What I really want to see is the other 20 men on her team tell their bosses to cut that shit out. We cannot rely on the abused to stand up for themselves; for every one who does there are thousands who cannot. It is on every one of us to report abhorrent behaviour, even if we think so…

> What I really want to see is the other 20 men on her team tell their bosses to cut that shit out.

You're being surprisingly lenient in your assessment here. I'd argue they need to tell their bosses to fuck off and find another job.

Re: I am an Uber survivor

#303

Post by rudolf0 » Mon, Feb 27, 2017, 10:23 PM UTC

btilly wrote: post #69

huac wrote: post #30

This is one of the most heavily flagged submissions I've seen in a while - hit #2 with 70 points, and now is at #6 with 174 points in 40 min, while the new #2 is 124 points in 2 hours.

I'm one of the flaggers. This is an entirely anonymous complaint with no particular reason why anyone would believe it. A lot of it read to me as too perfect. Too designed to hit all of the right buttons to generate outrage. I won't deny that it could be true. But I'd also give that possibility under even odds. And if stories like this are true, then we'll likely have enough opportunity to learn that later to give th…

I don't think it's flag-worthy because it absolutely could be true. It's not like anything here is that difficult to believe given previous insider reports from Uber. None of the claims here are that absurd.

But, yes, it could easily be an anonymous troll. It needs verification.

Re: I am an Uber survivor

#304

Post by huckyaus » Mon, Feb 27, 2017, 10:23 PM UTC

tyre wrote: post #210

I'm really happy she felt comfortable doing this. What an incredibly brave and strong person—I can't imagine what she must be feeling. What I really want to see is the other 20 men on her team tell their bosses to cut that shit out. We cannot rely on the abused to stand up for themselves; for every one who does there are thousands who cannot. It is on every one of us to report abhorrent behaviour, even if we think so…

"It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends upon his not understanding it"

- Upton Sinclair

Re: I am an Uber survivor

#305

Post by cyberpunk » Mon, Feb 27, 2017, 10:23 PM UTC

yummyfajitas wrote: post #282

cyberpunk wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What was your motivation for doing this? As soon as someone doesn't want to be associated with a story critical of anything, the salt is implicit isn't it? Considering the last few stories that have come out about how women are being treated in tech, what I've observed (and been enraged by) I'm pretty sure this happened/is happening still. Are you just trying to verify the legitimacy of the post? If someone finds the…

Are you just trying to verify the legitimacy of the post? If someone finds the courage to speak out, why would you then try to out them for doing so? Because if it's not legitimate then it's worth knowing that? To me, this story seems far more suspicious than Fowler. Does it even matter if it's faked if most of us could totally believe it's not? Perhaps a variety of fake incidents have caused you to believe things th…

What would be the motivation behind creating a 'false' rhetoric such as the experiences of women in tech?

I've certainly seen this happening / had to deal with it, I do feel that this is still an issue and something we need to improve. While it's not an across the board problem, I suspect most women working in tech would agree with me; the story, which I don't stand behind as as legitimate, is very similar to the sorts of things I've seen going on.

I wish we could just make it very hard for either false (I've seen this case happen, demonstrably, too) or true claims such as these to occur.

In most cases, talking to leads/mgt BEFORE these things get really bad would have helped and that's something we should be making easier..

Re: I am an Uber survivor

#306

Post by TorKlingberg » Mon, Feb 27, 2017, 10:24 PM UTC

tyre wrote: post #210

I'm really happy she felt comfortable doing this. What an incredibly brave and strong person—I can't imagine what she must be feeling. What I really want to see is the other 20 men on her team tell their bosses to cut that shit out. We cannot rely on the abused to stand up for themselves; for every one who does there are thousands who cannot. It is on every one of us to report abhorrent behaviour, even if we think so…

The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.

Re: I am an Uber survivor

#307

Post by r00fus » Mon, Feb 27, 2017, 10:24 PM UTC

spaceflunky wrote: post #260

brianpgordon wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eric Holder certainly does already have an existing business relationship with Uber- http://bigstory.ap.org/article/01685274cc944196af9016ad0a875...

Is it just me or are other people also constantly surprised by how many big names have their hands in the 'uber pot'? It's like there's a massive list of investors and shareholders who are all riding this "sure thing" to big riches. Which makes me wonder two things: 1.) is uber too big too fail? are there so many rich and powerful people invested that they will make uber succeed no matter or 2.) this thing could be t…

After Theranos nothing really surprises me in terms of big names in the pot.

Re: I am an Uber survivor

#308

Post by mjolk » Mon, Feb 27, 2017, 10:24 PM UTC

ubercore wrote: post #266

mjolk wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're trying to play identity politics in an attempt to discredit any disagreement based on another layer of subjective criteria that you decide. What you just suggested -- that men are incapable of considering the credibility of an anonymous story told from a female point of view -- is sexist. When I believed in Susan Fowler's account, was I allowed to have an opinion then? Racism and homophobia were also brought u…

I'm not playing identity politics. And I didn't mention racism and homophobia because that's not the perspective the author wrote from. Look, I'm not trying to be argumentative, and I understand your doubts about the story. Really. I'm just calling attention to the way you chose to raise them. Claiming they're "absurd" as a way to present your argument that we should be skeptical is hard to take to seriously unless y…

> I'm not playing identity politics. And I didn't mention racism and homophobia because that's not the perspective the author wrote from.

You suggested I'm not qualified to decide if the claims are believable (to me) and suggested that I would be if I was a woman that worked at Uber. "You don't understand X because you're not a Y" is a textbook attempt to reframe an argument away from objective considerations.

> Claiming they're "absurd" as a way to present your argument that we should be skeptical is hard to take to seriously unless you're willing to say you worked on her team, or were another female engineering at Uber.

Please note that I didn't claim the author was a liar. I wasn't careful with my words, but: "This submission is just anonymous accusations. Absurd, unrealistic-sounding accusations."

It's truthful to say the accusations are anonymous. The level of misconduct described by the author is absurd and sounds unrealistic -- if these events were proven to have happened, they would still be _absurd_ and _sound unrealistic_.

> And yes, I probably escalated things talking about privilege, but I think this is a good example of how we don't always realize the ways our viewpoints affect our opinions.

It's not escalation; invoking claims of "privilege" is head's up that you want to talk in subjective terms ("he/she feels", "other group experiences"), which is fine, but not fitting when I'm suggesting that I have a hard time believing an anonymous author's claims (e.g. "guys" at work writing sexual fantasy stories in private chat that the author somehow read).

An an aside, from reading between the lines, we have similar wants for the future culture of tech, but we're working with different strategies.

Re: I am an Uber survivor

#309

Post by losteverything » Mon, Feb 27, 2017, 10:24 PM UTC

Two comments

Future Amy's should always be prepared to start recording at a moment's notice. Think Roger Ailes

If you ignore a verbal wrong said to someone else and you don't say something, then it is like you said it yourself.

Re: I am an Uber survivor

#310

Post by tyingq » Mon, Feb 27, 2017, 10:24 PM UTC

beastcoast wrote: post #168

vkou wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's surprising to me that neither have pursued Uber in this regard. Reasons to pursue sexual harassment litigation: * You may make some money. Reasons to not pursue sexual harassment litigation: * You will have to devote an enormous amount of money, time, energy, health, and your emotional well-being. * Your lawyers will take half the settlement, either in up front fees, or as a portion of the bounty. * You will g…

There really needs to be a Government organization that can investigate these claims, that employees could report incidents to instead of HR. Like a beefed up Department of Labor that is responsive to employee needs. Tax the corporation to pay for it and dissolve corporations that are repeat offenders.

There is the EEOC. https://www.eeoc.gov/federal/fed_employees/filing_complaint....