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UK government considering a “cut-off date” for EU citizens’ rights to residency

independent.co.uk

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Re: UK government considering a “cut-off date” for EU citizens’ rights to residency

#71

Post by tobltobs »

nothrabannosir wrote: post #18
burkaman wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are you talking about? What is misleading about this headline? It doesn't contain literally every detail, because yes you are supposed to actually read the article. As you mentioned, the important details are right there in the first couple paragraphs, not missing or buried near the end. How would you have phrased this headline?

I'm an EU citizen living in the UK, and I held my breath reading this headline. I was relieved to read alecco's comment (and the actual article). I think that's what he means: the headline sounds like she's going to kick EU citizens out. After all, the headline, as it stands, applies to me. Her actual words, very explicitly, do not. That is misleading.

> ... applies to me. Her actual words, very explicitly, do not.

I think you skipped this part:

> providing the same was true for UK citizens living in the EU.

That means your future in the UK is as safe as some bargain chips can be.

Re: UK government considering a “cut-off date” for EU citizens’ rights to residency

#72

Post by pavlov »

EasyTiger_ wrote: post #43
sparkzilla wrote: post #39

Why is this on HN?

The massive anti-Brexit, anti-Trump astroturfing campaign which has ruined reddit wants to come here, too.

Both sides of this debate are equally guilty of accusing the others of astroturfing.

To liberals, any pro-Trump poster must be a Russian operating out of a St. Petersburg fake news factory. To conservatives, any anti-Trump poster must be a paid protester on the payroll of George Soros.

I feel it would make sense for HN to have a full ban on any accusations of astroturfing or paid trolling.

Re: UK government considering a “cut-off date” for EU citizens’ rights to residency

#73

Post by mdekkers »

alecco wrote: post #19
toyg wrote: post #2

It makes sense, I don't think anyone could realistically expect anything different. Considering it's basically a starting negotiating position, it's actually pretty good from my perspective (EU national who has formally been granted permanent residency by exercising his treaty rights). Obviously the devil is in the details, i.e. what it will mean exactly "after the cutoff date": if one has lived in UK long enough to…

> If you are an EU citizen looking to move to the UK: just don't I call BS on that. UK is quite open to LEGAL worker immigration from anywhere around the world. What's the big deal? I worked in UK for years and I'm not EU. Many Americans, Asians, Australians, etc. go through these channels without issue. After a few years they give you residentship. And shortly after that they give you citizenship. It's crazy how thi…

UK is quite open to LEGAL worker immigration from anywhere around the world.

lol, no it isn't - legal immigration from the EU is the main pillar of Brexit: "Stop all these people coming to live in our country."

Re: UK government considering a “cut-off date” for EU citizens’ rights to residency

#74

Post by hakanensari »

jakewins wrote: post #45
nothrabannosir wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm an EU citizen living in the UK, and I held my breath reading this headline. I was relieved to read alecco's comment (and the actual article). I think that's what he means: the headline sounds like she's going to kick EU citizens out. After all, the headline, as it stands, applies to me. Her actual words, very explicitly, do not. That is misleading.

That's entirely fair - but, I don't think it's The Independents fault that EU citizens in the UK are in for a terrifying ride watching these laws get negotiated. She is ending EU citizens right to live and work in UK, with provisions to protect those already in the country.

Another somewhat important distinction to note is that ending the right to live here doesn't imply eliminating the possibility to do so. Although they now seem to be ruling out a points-based system, I'm assuming that once you tick certain boxes in some shape or form (and one can reasonably assume people on this board will do so), it will be more or less frictionless to move to and fro.

Whether discriminating against lesser-skilled immigration from poorer countries is a moral thing to do is, of course, a separate subject for discussion.

Re: UK government considering a “cut-off date” for EU citizens’ rights to residency

#75

Post by pjc50 »

alecco wrote: post #66
acd wrote: post #46

This should cause inflation of prices as the price of food increase. This is due to it being more expensive to produce food in the UK versus importing it from for example Spain and the Netherlands. Thus the average UK consumer will be poorer. Not limited only products such as vegetables.

What are you talking aobut? EU protectionism raises food prices.

http://www.fwi.co.uk/news/nfu-issues-warning-potential-labou...

http://www.producebusinessuk.com/insight/insight-stories/201...

“UK citizens do not like to come and pick our crops and so we have to bring in workers from the EU; from Poland, Czech Republic and Bulgaria etc. They represent 95 percent of our workforce and without them we are absolutely sunk,” he said.

Re: UK government considering a “cut-off date” for EU citizens’ rights to residency

#76

Post by CalRobert »

raverbashing wrote: post #14
barrkel wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My perspective is a little bit different. If they want to kick me out, I'll go somewhere else. I am Irish; the probability is high that my nationality will be treated differently owing to history. But if they want me to ask to stay, they can go fuck themselves.

> I am Irish; the probability is high that my nationality will be treated differently owing to history Yes, I think you're allowed to stay.

Based on what exactly? If you have sources to cite there are many interested people. So far we've a general feeling of "people have been moving between these two countries freely since decades before the EU existed so they couldn't stop that... could they?" - could they?

Then again, isn't the EU supposed to bargain as a block?

Any firm comment on this by a party in a position to influence policy would be received with great interest.

Re: UK government considering a “cut-off date” for EU citizens’ rights to residency

#77

Post by gotchange »

alecco wrote: post #6

It's sad how even the Independent is now taken by misleading headlines. They are considering stopping it 'after a “cut-off date”'' to prevent abuse of people from poor eastern Europe countries to flood UK before it leaves the EU. Right there in the first couple of paragraphs. I used to have a lot of respect for the BBC, Financial Times, and The Independent. Even The Guardian being partisan had the basic decency of pu…

I don't think that the headline is misleading one bit.

You're just making assumptions about the time of this order going in effect to be right away which can't be deduced from the headline.

You'd be right if the headline read like this

"Theresa May ends EU citizens’ rights to live in UK"

Which implies immediate action taking place.

The fact that the headline gets the "to end", or in other cases "set to end", suggests that the subject of the sentence is expected to do something in the future and not in the present.

Re: UK government considering a “cut-off date” for EU citizens’ rights to residency

#78

Post by lukasm »

toyg wrote: post #2

It makes sense, I don't think anyone could realistically expect anything different. Considering it's basically a starting negotiating position, it's actually pretty good from my perspective (EU national who has formally been granted permanent residency by exercising his treaty rights). Obviously the devil is in the details, i.e. what it will mean exactly "after the cutoff date": if one has lived in UK long enough to…

It seems the only way to execute your rights is to apply for residency and that requires 5 years.

Re: UK government considering a “cut-off date” for EU citizens’ rights to residency

#79

Post by vixen99 »

fnord123 wrote: post #52
EasyTiger_ wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The massive anti-Brexit, anti-Trump astroturfing campaign which has ruined reddit wants to come here, too.

Я должен буду помнить, что один!

'I'll have to remember that one!' according to Google Translate.

Re: UK government considering a “cut-off date” for EU citizens’ rights to residency

#80

Post by kriro »

tonyedgecombe wrote: post #27
struppi wrote: post #12

OK, wait, this does not make sense. If half of Romania an Bulgaria wanted to come to the UK, they would already be there. Because free movement already exists. Why would anyone decide now to "quickly move to the UK", just because they are leaving the EU? I would rather see this as a disincentive to move there, as a EU citicen, right now...

It's fairly easy to foresee a rush to get in before the door closes.

One could also foresee a rush out since the country is turning into a place many people would probably not want to live in. Seems naive to assume you won't be kicked out eventually.
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