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How a French scholar was treated at US airport

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Re: How a French scholar was treated at US airport

#71

Post by coldpie »

DyslexicAtheist wrote: post #33
staticelf wrote: post #27

I am about to visit the US soon. I am planning not to bring my personal phone and computer. It feels like I am going to visit China, not the US. I would probably not personally pay for a trip to the US now.. I don't want to pay a lot of money in order to be rejected at the border.

this is worth reading then https://medium.com/@thegrugq/stop-fabricating-travel-securit... EDIT (what to do): https://twitter.com/thegrugq/status/829855684636274688

That's kind of a worthless article. What's the solution, then? Just accept that all of your private data will be copied by the government? Don't travel at all?

Edit: Also, the same guy explicitly encourages lying about your social media accounts two posts prior to that one. Which is it, chief?

Re: How a French scholar was treated at US airport

#72

Post by dboreham »

geggam wrote: post #5

How is it the same people working for one president less than 60 days later act so different ? or are they ?

I am very white and a native English speaker and I can attest that there have always been rude and overzealous immigration officers. Heck they are rude to me when we cross the border from Canada with the wife and two kids in the car and in-state license plates.

Re: How a French scholar was treated at US airport

#73

Post by the_cyber_pass »

coldcode wrote: post #65
staticelf wrote: post #27

I am about to visit the US soon. I am planning not to bring my personal phone and computer. It feels like I am going to visit China, not the US. I would probably not personally pay for a trip to the US now.. I don't want to pay a lot of money in order to be rejected at the border.

Do not come to the US for any reason. Also, request that your government treat all US visitors exactly the same as this. Until people start to see how awful treating people like trash is nothing will change, it will only get worse. My job depends (somewhat) on foreign tourists coming to the US, I would rather lose my job than read these embarrassing stories.

That sounds a bit extreme. The US is bad, but it's not the worst place I have ever been. Also don't drag the rest of us in with you, it's selfish and petty that you would have people lose their jobs over what you perceive as a embarrassment from reading things on the internet.

Re: How a French scholar was treated at US airport

#74

Post by Symbiote »

angry_octet wrote: post #57
curiousgal wrote: post #19

IANAL but isn't getting paid for an intervention considered a job and thus requires a work visa?

It's a special type of payment, often called an honorarium, which is to defray the cost and inconvenience a visiting academic incurs in order to perform a voluntary service for their host institution (e.g. participating in a colloquium). The academic is already generally fully employed at their own institution. (N.B. TAMU chooses to call them speaker fees and travel reimbursements, which might be the cause of some of…

I wonder why didn't he take a VWB instead of a VWT? It may have saved some hassle.

I don't remember exactly how it works, but last time I visited the USA for a conference, I think I ticked the 'business' box. I still got the awful interrogation they do, but I think everyone's noticed that's been standard for a few years now.

Re: How a French scholar was treated at US airport

#75

Post by monodeldiablo »

coldcode wrote: post #65
staticelf wrote: post #27

I am about to visit the US soon. I am planning not to bring my personal phone and computer. It feels like I am going to visit China, not the US. I would probably not personally pay for a trip to the US now.. I don't want to pay a lot of money in order to be rejected at the border.

Do not come to the US for any reason. Also, request that your government treat all US visitors exactly the same as this. Until people start to see how awful treating people like trash is nothing will change, it will only get worse. My job depends (somewhat) on foreign tourists coming to the US, I would rather lose my job than read these embarrassing stories.

Please don't encourage ill treatment of US citizens overseas. Americans who travel outside her borders are not the people making these decisions, tend to be much more worldly than the average citizen, and are the first to be horrified at these developments.

If you want to make the US change, speak the language we speak: lawsuits. Sue, sue, sue. Call your embassy and demand that they pressure the White House to retract this stupid policy.

Re: How a French scholar was treated at US airport

#76

Post by rbanffy »

staticelf wrote: post #45
DyslexicAtheist wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

this is worth reading then https://medium.com/@thegrugq/stop-fabricating-travel-securit... EDIT (what to do): https://twitter.com/thegrugq/status/829855684636274688

I will be carrying devices, but not personal ones. So without any personal data. If that is enough to send me back, sure then I'll go back. I won't lie. I will simply say that I don't want my devices searched if asked about it. Honestly, I don't think I would give up my password even for devices that are not my personal ones. Is that really a bad plan?

The officer at the border has discretionary power to send you back. If they are unhappy with what is on your device - or they dislike you - they can bounce you.

Re: How a French scholar was treated at US airport

#77

Post by officelineback »

robk wrote: post #68

UPDATE: "It turned out this whole story has nothing to do with Egypt or Holocaust. Historian claimed that he would give a speech for money. Incompetent CBP officer incorrectly concluded that its a work without a proper work visa."

"Never attribute to malice that which can be attributed to incompetence."

Re: How a French scholar was treated at US airport

#78

Post by dboreham »

gillianlish wrote: post #52
metasean wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No need to be a Derp about it, curiousgal was asking a logical question. Yes, the answer was in the article, but it was toward the end. Since many of these days skim articles or read HN comments first or some combination _and_ getting paid to do something for others is a common, if not defining aspect of "work" [0], her question is logical. As for FUD spreading, before she even asked the question, she started by stat…

heres a logical question. ISNT PUTTING SOMEONE IN A ROOM FOR TWELVE HOURS FOR NO FUCKING REASON A CRIME

You'd think. The culture in the US just seems to tolerate too much of this "Show me your papers!" attitude imho.

Source: I grew up in the UK where you (still) don't need to carry a drivers license. Meanwhile in the USA where I'm now a citizen I get a cold sweat if I forget my wallet when I take a 10 minute drive to buy some milk in case I'm pulled over by the cops..

Re: How a French scholar was treated at US airport

#79

Post by PeterisP »

csydas wrote: post #61
DyslexicAtheist wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

yes, both could be triggers

I understand the basic scope of the author's intent, stop advertising fool-proof solutions to avoid vetting checked by the CBP, but their praxis comments require a bit more sourcing and evidence for some of the claims, and quite frankly, most just sound like scaremongering. The CBP actions and incidents as described by first hand accounts do not seem to define an institutional directive guiding the decisions as to wh…

The agents must be looking for reasons to deny entry rather than reasons to admit, since that's what the law (e.g. [1]) has always required them to do.

If you come in with a tourist visa, the explicit legal presumption (opposite to presumption of innocence in criminal law) is that you're not fulfilling the conditions of the visa and actually intend to immigrate or work in USA, and the job given to the immigration officer is to interview you until (and if!) they become convinced that you really do meet the conditions - and if they aren't sure one way or another, then it's their duty to deny entry. It's not a new change coming in with Trump, it's that how USA immigration (sadly) works by design.

[1] from https://www.uscis.gov/ilink/docView/SLB/HTML/SLB/0-0-0-1/0-0... -

(b) Every alien 10/ (other than a nonimmigrant described in subparagraph (L) or (V) of section 101(a)(15), and other than a nonimmigrant described in any provision of section 101(a)(15)(H)(i) except subclause (b1) of such section) shall be presumed to be an immigrant until he establishes to the satisfaction of the consular officer, at the time of application for a visa, and the immigration officers, at the time of application for admission, that he is entitled to a nonimmigrant status under section 101(a)(15) .

Re: How a French scholar was treated at US airport

#80

Post by Kurtz79 »

coldcode wrote: post #65
staticelf wrote: post #27

I am about to visit the US soon. I am planning not to bring my personal phone and computer. It feels like I am going to visit China, not the US. I would probably not personally pay for a trip to the US now.. I don't want to pay a lot of money in order to be rejected at the border.

Do not come to the US for any reason. Also, request that your government treat all US visitors exactly the same as this. Until people start to see how awful treating people like trash is nothing will change, it will only get worse. My job depends (somewhat) on foreign tourists coming to the US, I would rather lose my job than read these embarrassing stories.

"Do not come to the US for any reason."

Many people are obliged to do so as part of their job.

Personally I have entered about 10 times with zero issues, I'll probably need to go soon and I'm kind of curious if the general attitude is changing.

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