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Ideas are not worthless

news.ycombinator.com

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Ideas are not worthless

#1
A lot of folks here claim that ideas are worthless without execution. It seems to be the popular wisdom. I wanted to toss out arguments to the contrary and then give away a product idea based on the principle.

This post is sparked by a thread earlier today that almost turned into a discussion on the value of ideas: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=136970

Ideas need execution to have their value realized. That doesn't mean the ideas are worthless! A leader has value, but only with followers. The most talented salespeople depend on development for their worth. A pill doesn't do anything until you swallow it -- but you'll still be happy to have it, and you can pass one around before someone claims it.

If all ideas had zero value, then it would be meaningless to say that one idea is better than another.

The entire intellectual property system, whatever its flaws, was constructed to try and allow idea-creators to capitalize on the value of the idea independent of the execution.

It's difficult to separate the value of the idea from its execution for two reasons. First, unlike pills, ideas spread by replication; when you give one away you keep yours. Second, when product ideas spread, the value to each holder decreases since there's an increase in the probability of a more skillful execution by someone else.

If there were some way of making the economics of ideas work more like the economics of pills, a startup could presumably intermediate the market and make a profit. Poppysan would be able to claim some of the value for his/her good idea by passing it someone with more freedom to execute.

Here's one way I think it might work. And I don't have the time or passion to execute on it!

The idea is to create an idea-market, where people can buy and sell ideas. The ideas could be simple, like a sentence ("Create a Javascript object that makes server requests without a full page request";"Buy that Google stock, I think it'll hit $300") or full papers like Nielsen Norman sells. How do you sell something if showing it to someone gives it all away? Clearly, you can't show before they pay. But why do you buy something you haven't seen yet?

Well, you need to trust the seller. When you buy a subscription to a magazine or newspaper, it's because you trust the editors not to shove crap at you once they have your money. At first, you build this trust through a track record. If a random stranger walked up to me and said, "I have a great product idea and nobody but you available to execute on it, but I want $1000 first," I'd tell them to fuck off. If pg did the same, I'd call my bank. And I've never met him.

We don't want a daily startup idea for $5, we only want a few good ones. So our trust system needs to be distributed --- A seller's trust needs to be built on a few transactions each with many buyers, rather than deep 'relationships' with few buyers. One way this could work: Would-be sellers give away a few clever thoughts, free, to build up a reputation for insightful analysis; buyers rate ideas; sellers gain reputation points through the ratings; buyers ratings for individual ratings are compared to each other to keep the buyers honest; sellers with good reputations are able to raise their prices. Pleasant side-effect/higher purpose/path to billion dollars: Deprecate the patent system by becoming the central global clearing-house for intellectual property exchange, partnering with universities, corporations, governments and entrepreneurs.

It's investment columns taken digital. eBay for ideas. IP for the new millenium. Whatever.

Or maybe it's a silly idea worth nothing at all!

Re: Ideas are not worthless

#2
Good idea, but it is still rough. The actual value of the idea wouldn't matter in an auction setting, it would just be the perceived value that would matter. And that perception would usually be flawed.

IP has value. I don't know if a mere idea with no protection is IP though.

Information is meant to disseminate. It is nearly impossible to manage the spread of the information. Nothing stops someone from reselling an idea or just distributing it freely after distribution.

Usually when ideas are sold there is a specific context for the ideas. Consultants can come in and just give advice (ideas) and receive compensation, but they are solving a problem. Not just a random idea.

Re: Ideas are not worthless

#3
The sentiment that ideas are worthless without execution is generally true. This can be easily explained, as "execution" can be broken down into two components: actions, and details. Action is obvious: no action, no product. Details, well, are "where the devil is."

A really good idea will include enough details, that it spills over into "execution." It's not just an idea-market. It's an idea-market where people submit via a form that looks like this, click that button, get scored this way. We will launch it by doing this, talking to those people, and focusing on this sector. We will convert this into physical and monetary value by selling this service.

Now, that may be an idea that is worth something.

While you have described certain approaches, until you have a very sharp focus that describes exactly how to get from point A to B (nothing to full product), which means not just "one way to do this is...", but "this is how we will do it," then the idea really is not "executable."

Re: Ideas are not worthless

#4
It also has a continuum and value add component. Think of it like this:

1) A good idea

2) A good idea for searching the internet

3) A good idea for searching the internet with a certain algorithm to rank pages.

4) Using a distributed computing system to make this search scale.

5) Google.

As each order of possibility collapses into the next the idea becomes more and more the execution until its done. At each stage, the value increases as some possibilities are trimmed off and the idea becomes more concrete (or less as the wrong ones remain and the path is derailed).

The primary problem going on in the IP world right now seems to be an unhealthy focus (and over valuation) on the very early stages of the continuum. Patents should be issued at steps 3 and 4 but they are being issued at 2 instead. Thus selling stuff but on the interwebs, becomes patentable and the dissonance caused by this makes it difficult now for those at 3 and 4 trying to get value from the actual hard part.

Re: Ideas are not worthless

#5
An interesting analysis. I agree that ideas are valuable, and after considering the issue, probably the only reason they have a market value of zero is because there is no good way to trade them.

I think you are on the right track with your proposed solution, but I think we can improve it:

Basically, ideas are interesting. If you publish ideas, a lot of people would go and read them. So there is your market. And you also note that the value of an idea decreases as it spreads, so that property can be leveraged to generate a competitive market.

So what you could do is generate the ideas and keep them exclusive. Someone can pay to look at an idea, and if they like the idea, they can buy it. If they don't buy, the idea gets released to the public.

I can see why this hasn't been attempted before, because there are some difficult issues that need to be dealt with. I do think that it could be done and made to work, so I might actually play around with this one and see what falls out. ambition, send an email if you'd like to play with me.

Re: Ideas are not worthless

#6
Some ideas are so good it doesn't take a genius to implement them. Personally I feel ideas are more important then your team, once you get started others will want to join you... your team will form itself with the right idea and some execution on your part.

Re: Ideas are not worthless

#8
"Ideas need execution to have their value realized. That doesn't mean the ideas are worthless!"

--Ok. If you say ideas have a real value, then why there is not market for it? Why there is no website where you can sell your great ideas to the highest bidder?

sorry, but ideas are just that. worth 0. It takes hard work and execution to make an idea worth something. Therefore, the execution is the value making part of it. Without it, the idea will just be a day dream.

Re: Ideas are not worthless

#10
Not all ideas are worth 0, just ideas that don't provide value in and of themselves. For example, a product idea doesn't provide value to your customer, a product execution / implementation does. On the other hand ideas that are provable or experimentally verifiable have value unto themselves (examples: fundamental theorem of algebra, electricity and magnetism, theory of relativity). This board focuses on product ideas so by and large here ideas are worthless.
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