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Ask HN: Are people lying about their salaries?

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Re: Ask HN: Are people lying about their salaries?

#71

Post by 1123581321 »

bluebknight wrote: post #42
37 wrote: post #15

I think that generally, yes, people lie/embellish/exaggerate, especially about things like their salary and especially on the Internet. I cannot speak to any situation in the SF bay area, but I have caught people telling this lie, and had people confess to telling this lie.

I fail to see what someone would gain from doing so. A few lies? Sure... But so many?

I can only speculate, of course, but I've met a developer who runs around inflating salary reports in hopes that he will set the expectation that employers at tech networking events will think they should pay him that much. It's strange to observe.

But mostly I'd just say that people like to have something impressive and interesting to say, and making up numbers is a quick way to do that.

Re: Ask HN: Are people lying about their salaries?

#72

Post by masonic »

BadassFractal wrote: post #33

HN is infamous for posters who claim to be making half a mil easily 5 years out of school. I don't know what universe they live in, it's not the reality anywhere in the Bay Area. I know of people who come close to that but they're an absolute anomaly, they're the 1% of the already rather selective % of people who make it into a SV unicorn out of the general population. It feels like the Facebook / Instagram effect wh…

  HN is infamous for posters who claim to be making half a mil easily
... in one conversation, while complaining about having 3 roommates in a two-bedroom apartment in another.

Re: Ask HN: Are people lying about their salaries?

#73

Post by notacoward »

masonic wrote: post #72
BadassFractal wrote: post #33

HN is infamous for posters who claim to be making half a mil easily 5 years out of school. I don't know what universe they live in, it's not the reality anywhere in the Bay Area. I know of people who come close to that but they're an absolute anomaly, they're the 1% of the already rather selective % of people who make it into a SV unicorn out of the general population. It feels like the Facebook / Instagram effect wh…

HN is infamous for posters who claim to be making half a mil easily ... in one conversation, while complaining about having 3 roommates in a two-bedroom apartment in another.

Those are not mutually exclusive, especially in the more expensive parts of Silicon Valley. Still, point taken.

Re: Ask HN: Are people lying about their salaries?

#74

Post by bsvalley »

ta_googler wrote: post #25

No they are not lying. A senior software engineer at Google easily makes >200K in cash compensation (salary + bonus), not counting RSU. And around half the Google engineering workforce is at that level or higher. I won't be surprised to see similar or even higher numbers at FB / Linkedin / Netflix. source: been a googler for >8 years

I've been a googler myself, a few make 200k base salary but it's still a small minority of the company. In your list, only Netflix will guarantee $200k minimum as an annual base salary for pretty much all their engineers. Why? Because first of all they only hire experienced engineers, and second of all, they don't offer RSU's, bonuses etc. It all comes into a single salary, unlike all the other companies in the Bay Area that talks about $250k-300k "hiring package", which doesn't mean anything...

Again, a bonus is NOT part of the base salary. And a hiring package = base salary + annual bonus + sign on bonus + RSU's (4 year vesting period). A financial institute will only look at your base salary to calculate your income/debt ration.

Re: Ask HN: Are people lying about their salaries?

#75

Post by bsvalley »

toephu2 wrote: post #50
bsvalley wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The base salary is your true buying power. Financial institutes look at your gross base salary in order to calculate the income/debt ration. Stocks and bonuses are not included unless they ask for you W2 instead of your paychecks. Also, it's your minimum guaranteed income every month that you can use to pay your monthly bills.

just fyi- when you apply for a mortgage, you are asked to provide the most recent 2 years of W2s. So total comp does help in securing a loan.

Yes and No. From my experience they do include W2s in your mortgage application in order to see your total assets in case you go bankrupt. They get as much info as they can, which is why they need your w2s ;) The rule for mortgage applications is still based on your monthly gross income. In the background, the actual decision is made off of your gross monthly income/debt ration. Otherwise if your employer's stock crashes tomorrow or if your annual performance is crap, they're pretty much screwed. Trust me they don't take any risks anymore since 2008. It's just as you said "a security", it doesn't impact the approval of your mortgage application.

Re: Ask HN: Are people lying about their salaries?

#76

Post by bsvalley »

donovanm wrote: post #64

Selection bias is a thing. Also like others are mentioning glassdoors data is not always accurate. Especially for people with lots of experience. But I don't think 200k base salary is that abnormal in Silicon Valley to be honest. Also everything I've heard about google suggests their stocks have a 4 year vesting period at 1/4 a year. It is not a four year cliff so I think you're way off there. Talking about compensat…

This posts has nothing to do with total comp or whatsoever. I'm talking about too many people claiming $200k/year as their base salary which seems very suspicious. Or they simply don't understand the break down of their total comp.

Re: Ask HN: Are people lying about their salaries?

#77

Post by bsvalley »

tomaha wrote: post #31

Most salaries I see look accurate. E.g. at Google your stock vests over 4 years but at the same time you get refreshers every year. So after starting and getting each successive year refreshers you start having all the amounts of 4 years vest in one year every year. Also very often if you switch these days companies offer you to buy your stocks out so you don't even loose the value when you switch companies.

I'm talking about the base salary not the total comp. If you don't make $200k in total comp per year in the Valley with 10 years of experience, you have a serious problem.

Re: Ask HN: Are people lying about their salaries?

#78

Post by LifeQuestioner »

user5994461 wrote: post #66
ldn_throwaway wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where are these £40k junior jobs? I've been in a junior position in London for 2 years earning mid £20k's and have been interviewing at other places for months, but the best offer I can find is £32k. Everyone I've talked to about it is in a similar ballpark.

£2Xk in London is outrageous. It's less than the living wage. I expect ALL companies to pay better than what you have now: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13541679 Do they ask how much you're currently paid and you reply 20k ? They will definitely use that information against you. You're so low that you might have to jump to 3X, then leave again in 6 months to go higher. What's you linkedin? Link to you resume?…

Btw, 20k is less than living wage are you kidding??? 18k is Living wage.

Lots of my grad friends fro ma top UK university were offered in their high 20's to start. But added bonuses. So one was 28k+2k bonus in first year. After 3 years, moved to 40k+bonuses.

Only have one friend who made 40k as a junior, he's one of the best coders i've ever come across. Oh and he went to work in finance.

Re: Ask HN: Are people lying about their salaries?

#79

Post by rb2k_ »

bsvalley wrote: post #23
rb2k_ wrote: post #7

At least with the 'big' valley companies, as a "senior engineer" (level 5) the usual numbers are around $170k base + a bonus that is 10%-20% of your base salary. That's about $200k cash without RSUs. So I'd say people are not lying. I guess if you switched 7 times in 10 years, it's hard to get RSU refreshers / salary bumps and companies tend to, if in doubt, hire BELOW your actual level.

Did you read my message? I'm actually talking about $200k/year base salary. A bonus is by definition not part of the base salary...

Usually everyone achieves 100% of the bonus. Good performers more than that.

It's not part of the 'base', but it's almost a certainty that you'll get it.

Re: Ask HN: Are people lying about their salaries?

#80

Post by hd4 »

user5994461 wrote: post #66
ldn_throwaway wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where are these £40k junior jobs? I've been in a junior position in London for 2 years earning mid £20k's and have been interviewing at other places for months, but the best offer I can find is £32k. Everyone I've talked to about it is in a similar ballpark.

£2Xk in London is outrageous. It's less than the living wage. I expect ALL companies to pay better than what you have now: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13541679 Do they ask how much you're currently paid and you reply 20k ? They will definitely use that information against you. You're so low that you might have to jump to 3X, then leave again in 6 months to go higher. What's you linkedin? Link to you resume?…

The single BEST advice, bar none, I have ever got from reading HN is to never disclose your current salary to recruiters under any circumstances, the only possible motive they have in asking is to lowball you. You should always ask for what you feel entitled to, and you should always punch upwards. UK here, btw. To describe the hiring market for programmers here as toxic would be a huge understatement.
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