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AMD’s $499 Ryzen 7 1800X Beats $1700 i7 6950X with 1-Click OC on Air Cooling

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Re: AMD’s $499 Ryzen 7 1800X Beats $1700 i7 6950X with 1-Click OC on Air Cooling

#191

Post by c2h5oh »

dpark wrote: post #125
brennebeck wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really. As the actual editing being added to the base image is what could push that. I think the question you'd be looking for is, "what amount of photo editing, effects, etc. would make the editing process of a 80mpix photo consume >16GB memory?" Additionally, as for your original question: For hobby or even 'normal' professional photography, I'd guess none. But rigs like the ones used for Gmaps Street View, the…

I actually want to know what camera is capturing 80 megapixels at 48 bits per pixel. The IQ180 is 16 bits per pixel. Where's the camera that triples this? Or are we doing Bayer interpolation in a way that requires 48 bits per pixel for some reason? Because there definitely isn't 48 bits of actual signal there. And yes, I also want to know what turns a 500MB photo into >16GB in memory. That's 32 full-res copies of the…

Bits per pixel: A lot of small frame SLRs (your Canons and Nikons) offer 12 or 14 bits per channel for a combined 36 or 42 bits per pixel. Medium format digital backs now offer 16 bits per channel.

Layer size: Layers add more data on top of this: alpha channel (8-16 bits/pixel), clipping mask and maybe half a dozen other things, easily bumping the whole thing from 6 to 9 or 10 bytes per pixel.

Layer count: It's fairly common to have multiple layers that are copies of the original photo, with different processing applied and blending them into the final one. I'm very much an amateur and when I'm serious about just making a photo look (not even creating something new) I end up with around 10 layers.

Undo step memory: a lot of work in the photo processing workflow is global: color correction, brightness, contrast, layer blending settings and modes, filters (including sharpening or blur) apply to every pixel of a layer. Each confirmed change (by releasing mouse button / lifting stylus / confirming dialog) is likely to have to store an undo step for entire layer.

Of course you can just persist some of that to disk, but if a single layer/undo step can be 800MB this will hurt productivity - only very recently we got drives that can write this much fast enough and that's why just a couple years ago, when having enough RAM was not really an option a lot of pro photographers had 10 or 15k RPM HDDs running in RAID0 in their workstations.

Re: AMD’s $499 Ryzen 7 1800X Beats $1700 i7 6950X with 1-Click OC on Air Cooling

#192

Post by chithanh »

greggyb wrote: post #190
chatterbeak wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With that much RAM, you'd be insane not to use ECC, which is another good reason for Xeon.

Or AMD, which supports ECC across all (most?) CPU lines historically. Again, the argument is about limitations of Intel consumer lines.

Question is, is buying those historical AMD CPUs which support ECC a good idea?

So far, none of the modern ones are confirmed to support ECC.

Re: AMD’s $499 Ryzen 7 1800X Beats $1700 i7 6950X with 1-Click OC on Air Cooling

#193

Post by chithanh »

jbmorgado wrote: post #20

Anyone knows where can I get detailed information about the processor? I tried to search in AMD page but the information is very scant. Namely do these processors support ECC and what virtualisation capabilities do they have (for KVM with full GPU access).

No official statement yet, but I think they will support virtualization. There hasn't been an AMD CPU in ages without AMD-Vi/IOMMU.

But lack of ECC support is a problem if you want to use virtualization for security, as Rowhammer can be used for attacking other VMs and ECC is often the last line of defense against Rowhammer.

https://fahrplan.events.ccc.de/congress/2016/Fahrplan/events...

Re: AMD’s $499 Ryzen 7 1800X Beats $1700 i7 6950X with 1-Click OC on Air Cooling

#194

Post by c2h5oh »

mozumder wrote: post #25
c2h5oh wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some examples that can easily push you beyond 64 GB: - high resolution photo editing: when you start with a 80 mpix / 48 bit photo from a medium format camera pushing beyond 16 GB requires only a couple layers and a couple undo steps being available - high resolution video processing. 1 second of uncompressed 4k 60fps video is almost 1.4GB - very large application compilation: building Android requires 16GB of RAM/sw…

If you can afford a $30,000 medium format camera, you can afford the Xeon workstation it usually needs. The kind of person that work with those systems would pay $6,000 for an umbrella that doesn't even have any electronics in it: https://www.adorama.com/bcb3355203.html?gclid=CLKvmd2erNICFY... Absolutely no one that owns one of these professional cameras uses them with non-Xeon CPUs. Really the only use for greater t…

While still true it might not be for long: "advanced amateur" small formal SLRs with 36mpix @42bpp now start below $2000 and 24mpix @36bpp in the lower part of $500-1000 bracket.

https://www.adorama.com/ipxk1.html https://www.adorama.com/inkd810.html https://www.adorama.com/inkd7100.html

Which brings a slightly unrelated note: people seem to be blissfully unaware that you need less than 9mpix for a 12x9" 300 dpi print or that the zoom lens they bought with the camera has sharpness that effectively limits the resolution to 5-10, maybe 12 mpix if they are lucky. But megapixel count is easy to sell -> race for more megapixels -> smaller physical pixels -> more signal amplification needed -> more noise / general lower photo quality.

Re: AMD’s $499 Ryzen 7 1800X Beats $1700 i7 6950X with 1-Click OC on Air Cooling

#195

Post by dpark »

qume wrote: post #151
dpark wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure it does. If someone can't afford the machine necessary to process the images that they got from the camera they spent thousands to rent, the problem isn't actually money. It's that they're an idiot. You don't buy/rent a camera you can't afford to process images from just like you don't buy a car you can't afford to service and you don't buy a house you can't afford taxes for. Or if you do, I have little to no sy…

The specifications from the client are quite particular, and usually only one or a few cameras meets the spec. The computers often are owned by the company renting the gear, where the end customer pays for the camera rental. So it's not so simple. And one thing - go easy on using the word idiot... I work with some very smart people who fit your description of idiot on a regular basis.

You're a professional that clients are paying multiple thousands of dollars for photography and you cannot afford the hardware to process their images? Color me skeptical.

If it's really true, then your pricing is clearly wrong.

Re: AMD’s $499 Ryzen 7 1800X Beats $1700 i7 6950X with 1-Click OC on Air Cooling

#196

Post by dpark »

SyneRyder wrote: post #160
dpark wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I actually want to know what camera is capturing 80 megapixels at 48 bits per pixel. The IQ180 is 16 bits per pixel. Where's the camera that triples this? Or are we doing Bayer interpolation in a way that requires 48 bits per pixel for some reason? Because there definitely isn't 48 bits of actual signal there. And yes, I also want to know what turns a 500MB photo into >16GB in memory. That's 32 full-res copies of the…

> I actually want to know what camera is capturing 80 megapixels at 48 bits per pixel. The IQ180 is 16 bits per pixel... Presumably that's 16-bits for each channel of Red, Green, Blue. Since every pixel is composed of the three RGB components, that's how you get 48-bits for every pixel (and internally, Photoshop refers to 16-bits per color channel as 'RGB48Mode').

There aren't actually three channels per pixel on most sensors. It's one channel (and only one color) and then there's a mixing process. I'm doubtful that you need 48 bits to do that mixing correctly, but maybe that is the standard way to do it.

Re: AMD’s $499 Ryzen 7 1800X Beats $1700 i7 6950X with 1-Click OC on Air Cooling

#197

Post by dragonwriter »

mcbits wrote: post #29
mozumder wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you can afford a $30,000 medium format camera, you can afford the Xeon workstation it usually needs. The kind of person that work with those systems would pay $6,000 for an umbrella that doesn't even have any electronics in it: https://www.adorama.com/bcb3355203.html?gclid=CLKvmd2erNICFY... Absolutely no one that owns one of these professional cameras uses them with non-Xeon CPUs. Really the only use for greater t…

Just because someone can afford to rent a $30,000 camera doesn't necessarily mean they have unlimited cash to burn on other things.

If you are buying that level of professional gear, it's probably for a profession. The rates you are charging ought to include the necessary costs of all necessary equipment.

Re: AMD’s $499 Ryzen 7 1800X Beats $1700 i7 6950X with 1-Click OC on Air Cooling

#198

Post by dpark »

c2h5oh wrote: post #191
dpark wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I actually want to know what camera is capturing 80 megapixels at 48 bits per pixel. The IQ180 is 16 bits per pixel. Where's the camera that triples this? Or are we doing Bayer interpolation in a way that requires 48 bits per pixel for some reason? Because there definitely isn't 48 bits of actual signal there. And yes, I also want to know what turns a 500MB photo into >16GB in memory. That's 32 full-res copies of the…

Bits per pixel: A lot of small frame SLRs (your Canons and Nikons) offer 12 or 14 bits per channel for a combined 36 or 42 bits per pixel. Medium format digital backs now offer 16 bits per channel. Layer size: Layers add more data on top of this: alpha channel (8-16 bits/pixel), clipping mask and maybe half a dozen other things, easily bumping the whole thing from 6 to 9 or 10 bytes per pixel. Layer count: It's fairl…

I replied about the 48 bit thing to the sibling comment. That may be how the Bayer interpolation is done so I won't argue that.

For the layers/undo steps, the "couple" of each was not my phrase. It was yours. If by "a couple" you actually meant dozens, then sure, maybe an 80 mpix photo really needs that much memory to process.

Re: AMD’s $499 Ryzen 7 1800X Beats $1700 i7 6950X with 1-Click OC on Air Cooling

#199

Post by exadeci »

ars wrote: post #102
dpark wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nah, it's just artificial limits. Would totally just work if they flipped a bit in the processor. /s Less sarcastically, what do people need >64 gigs for on a consumer desktop? I'm a dev and work on a pretty memory intensive service and don't need 128 gigs. Holding an entire double layer blu-ray in memory would only require 50 gigs.

> Less sarcastically, what do people need >64 gigs for on a consumer desktop? I use mine as a terminal server to some super cheap Raspberry PI machines that are basically just monitors running VNC software. For good performance you need about 4 to 8GB per user. I don't have that many users personally to need 64GB, but if you have a bunch of kids having terminals is much cheaper than a real computer for each user, plu…

When did a >server become a consumer desktop?

Re: AMD’s $499 Ryzen 7 1800X Beats $1700 i7 6950X with 1-Click OC on Air Cooling

#200

Post by exadeci »

Svenskunganka wrote: post #107
dpark wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nah, it's just artificial limits. Would totally just work if they flipped a bit in the processor. /s Less sarcastically, what do people need >64 gigs for on a consumer desktop? I'm a dev and work on a pretty memory intensive service and don't need 128 gigs. Holding an entire double layer blu-ray in memory would only require 50 gigs.

Minecraft. That shit is heavy! On a more serious note, some gamers are using RAM disks to greatly improve performance of some games, especially modded games like Minecraft and Skyrim.

It...it doesn't, most of the time http://community.pcgamingwiki.com/uploads/gallery/album_63/s...
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