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How to Be a Stoic

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Re: How to Be a Stoic

#221

Post by Arun2009 »

manmal wrote: post #2

One interesting thing I've noticed is that ancient Stoics have not rebuked the concept of god (or "the universe"), a higher power that determines all the things that are not in our control (as a Stoic you very much need to distinguish between things in and outside of your control). I have found it difficult to really, deeply, accept things as out of my control without resorting to some concept of god or "the universe…

> Is there someone among you HNers who has retained a positive outlook by believing that the universe is a bleak, chaotic place with no intrinsic meaning to the things happening in it?

I see many living things around me - kittens, birds, squirrels, lizards, dogs - who happily go on living their lives without bothering with such things as the bleakness of the universe or its impermanence or its meaninglessness. I then remind myself that I must appear just as wonderful a creature as a kitten, bird, squirrel or lizard to some alien observer. I would find it absurd if the three playful kittens in my house suddenly developed an existential crisis. They are kittens! Their purpose is to be happy. But the same principle holds for me too.

In other words, the problem of meaninglessness of life is a problem we create by fiat. It's a remarkable fact that we're fragments of this grand, ancient universe that have become sentient. That itself is enough of a reason to be thrilled at our existence and everything around us, including the good and the bad!

Re: How to Be a Stoic

#222

Post by Arun2009 »

anantzoid wrote: post #216
Arun2009 wrote: post #214

> Albert Ellis came up with an early form of cognitive-behavioral therapy, based largely on Epictetus’ claim that “it is not events that disturb people, it is their judgments concerning them.” This actually is presented in Buddhism too, which was where I first encountered it before re-discovering similar principles in stoicism and Ellis's Rational Emotive Behavior Therapy. See this sutta: http://www.accesstoinsight.o…

Which particular troubling event related to India are you referring to?

Not events, but several trends and crises. Two that personally concern me are the looming water crisis and pollution: I would love to have more water security and be able to breathe cleaner air. I can put up with the haphazard electric supply and the abysmal transport infrastructure. I don't have to bother about such fancy things like the substandard educational system or the endemic criminalization of politics.

But perhaps above all, (a) the dysfunctional governance system that is incapable of doing anything about any of this, and (b) the gradual descent of the society into a more regressive state.

Re: How to Be a Stoic

#223

Post by theonemind »

cylinder wrote: post #212

What if I want to suffer more ? I want to be less okay with all my procrastination, my job situation, my lack of willpower in the face of adversity, and more. I want to take my failures more personally - I want losing to be painful like it is for Michael Jordan, I'm presently too content with it.

That doesn't seem very difficult. You can try judging yourself harshly and make a habit of ruminating over it. Quite a number of people have those sorts of habits and want to break them. You might find it hard to stop if you develop those habits.

Re: How to Be a Stoic

#224

Post by jwdunne »

ArkyBeagle wrote: post #218
jwdunne wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well if everybody loved the human race such that they could bring no deliberate harm to it, the world would be a better place. Unfortunately, psychopathy, or rather Anti-Social Personality Disorder and Narcissistic Personality Disorder, are real things.

Those are slowly being identified as artifacts of trauma[1], at least the pathological cases are. SO imagine how prevalent they were in the Classical world. [1]] I don't hold that un-self-aware people are pathological...

I'm sure it is possible to be born one and not made. I read one position that psychopathy was by nature and sociopathy by nurture, describing the same ends by differing means.

Re: How to Be a Stoic

#225

Post by manmal »

nurettin wrote: post #68
manmal wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Evilness/Goodness depends on what utility function you ascribe to god. If you define god's utility function as "avoid all pain in living organisms", then it's indeed an evil or non-cooperative god or universe. I personally can deal with pain (remember, suffering is optional).

So you can deal with pain, but you simply can't bear the non-existence of the pain-giver. Sounds like a fetish.

Haha I will have to think about that, interesting point!

Re: How to Be a Stoic

#226

Post by Baeocystin »

FabHK wrote: post #76
Baeocystin wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I admire many aspects of the stoic outlook, but Nietzsche's criticism is delightfully needle-sharp.

I don't interpret Stoicism as succumbing to the naturalistic fallacy though (as in, what happens naturally is good, "is=ought"), but rather see it as an epistemological injunction, that is: you have to see things in the eyes and try hard to see and understand the world as it is.

A fair counterargument, and I would agree with you in an overall sense.

That being said, it is pretty clear from reading that a significant portion of the stoics did fall for that particular fallacy to one degree or another.

Re: How to Be a Stoic

#227

Post by nnd »

factsaresacred wrote: post #3

‘For such a small price, I buy tranquillity.’ Beautifully put. The Penguin edition of fellow stoic Marcus Aurelius' Meditations is free on Amazon kindle: https://www.amazon.com/Meditations-Marcus-Aurelius-Wisehouse...

You buy a piece of mind for yourself, but what about the rest of society? Would you let injustice be, or would you do something about it, not for a personal revenge, but as a mindful action?

Re: How to Be a Stoic

#228

Post by ceras »

clydethefrog wrote: post #166
RivieraKid wrote: post #42

What's up with all those submissions about stoicism on HN, is that some new SV fad?

Stoicism gives you the mental ability to deal with evil, futility and failure, since it makes you believe you are a non-entity in an inflexible, vast and nasty social structure. It's a philosophy of inaction and accommodation to injustice and oppression. There is a reason it became popular for Roman soldiers under the Empire. Well, at least stoicism does not claim that you are changing the world for the better by cre…

> It's a philosophy of inaction and accommodation to injustice and oppression.

This is not what I got out of reading Meditations by Marcus Aurelius and articles on Stoicism. In common English use, "stoic" sometimes implies what you said, but that's not the same as Stoicism-the-philosophy.

"The Stoics held that virtue is the only real good and so is both necessary and, contrary to Aristotle, sufficient for happiness; it in no way depends on luck."[0]

It's also true that Stoicism encourages acceptance of all outcomes, whatever they are, which people misconstrue to imply it's not worth doing your best. Here's a quote by Cicero on doing your best but not letting the outcome influence your emotions:

"Take the case of one whose task it is to shoot a spear or arrow straight at some target. One’s ultimate aim is to do all in one’s power to shoot straight, and the same applies with our ultimate goal. In this kind of example, it is to shoot straight that one must do all one can; none the less, it is to do all one can to accomplish the task that is really the ultimate aim. It is just the same with what we call the supreme good in life. To actually hit the target is, as we say, to be selected but not sought."

[0] http://www.iep.utm.edu/stoiceth/

Re: How to Be a Stoic

#230

Post by radicality »

hartator wrote: post #62

I can't recommend enough "A Guide to the Good Life: The Ancient Art of Stoic Joy" by Irvine, William B. I am 2/3 into it, maybe one of the best philosophy book I've ever read.

I loved it too when I read it back in 2012 but applying the lessons learned from books always seems to be very short-lived for me. Anyone have any tips and thoughts on how to make sure that I actually execute on the things I like in books like 'A Guide to the Good Life'?
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