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The rise of AI is creating new variety in the chip market, and trouble for Intel

economist.com

21–30 of 58 posts

Re: The rise of AI is creating new variety in the chip market, and trouble for Intel

#21

> But the GPUs also have new destinations: notably data centres where artificial-intelligence (AI) programmes gobble up the vast quantities of computing power that they generate. Should not it be "programs"? Or is "programmes" used in some dialect of English I am not aware of?

"Programme" is used in British English for that broadcasting stuff etc. As far as I can tell, they do use "program" for computer programs, though.

Re: The rise of AI is creating new variety in the chip market, and trouble for Intel

#22

> Instead of making ASICS or FPGAs, Intel focused in recent years on making its CPU processors ever more powerful If only, intel has been abusing their market position and pushing out "upgrades" that barely have a performance improvement over the previous generation. AI is not going to eat intel's lunch, all those computers still require cpus. AMD on the other hand may eat intel's lunch by releasing powerful multicor…

> AI is not going to eat intel's lunch, all those computers still require cpus.

But they might not need that powerful CPU anymore, if computational heavy task happens elsewhere anyway. So as time goes, CPU will become less critical, meaning less money for Intel

Re: The rise of AI is creating new variety in the chip market, and trouble for Intel

#23
post #13

> Instead of making ASICS or FPGAs, Intel focused in recent years on making its CPU processors ever more powerful If only, intel has been abusing their market position and pushing out "upgrades" that barely have a performance improvement over the previous generation. AI is not going to eat intel's lunch, all those computers still require cpus. AMD on the other hand may eat intel's lunch by releasing powerful multicor…

> If only, intel has been abusing their market position and pushing out "upgrades" that barely have a performance improvement over the previous generation. And why is that because of "abusing their market position", as opposed to plainly and clearly being more difficult to get faster processors at 14 nm and lower resolutions (and with the low power requirements of today)? Besides, the trend the article points to is a…

They put 'crappy' GPU's on die which they continued to upgrade even when the CPU side stagnated. So, while the last upgrade may have been a process issue, the last 4 CPU refreshes have all been classic monopolist behavior.

PS: GPU's might seem like something you want on the CPU, but bandwidth is a killer worse they add heat which directly lowers CPU performance.

Re: The rise of AI is creating new variety in the chip market, and trouble for Intel

#24
post #13

> Instead of making ASICS or FPGAs, Intel focused in recent years on making its CPU processors ever more powerful If only, intel has been abusing their market position and pushing out "upgrades" that barely have a performance improvement over the previous generation. AI is not going to eat intel's lunch, all those computers still require cpus. AMD on the other hand may eat intel's lunch by releasing powerful multicor…

> If only, intel has been abusing their market position and pushing out "upgrades" that barely have a performance improvement over the previous generation. And why is that because of "abusing their market position", as opposed to plainly and clearly being more difficult to get faster processors at 14 nm and lower resolutions (and with the low power requirements of today)? Besides, the trend the article points to is a…

It's interesting when amd was breathing down their necks previously they suddenly got sufficient motivation. I expect them to get motivated again.

Re: The rise of AI is creating new variety in the chip market, and trouble for Intel

#25
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But analog computers do not permit error correction! Crosstalk of 10% does not affect digital data busses, but ruins analog. ECC memory is trivial with digital but not possible even in theory with analog. This (and programmability) is why we moved from super fast analog to slow digital half a century ago. Given all these constraints I am actually quite excited to hear more of the dissenting view. Can you describe som…

A significant portion of any real-world AI system is dedicated to extracting relevant features from raw sensor information. Doing that digitally has proven to have a very high cost rated in both watts and operating temperature. Most machine learning algorithms are by design resilient to random noise. They can even be learned to be resilient to systematic noise (due to say.. variable hardware performance in mass produ…

The problem is you now dramatically increased the cost of training. Which might be ok for speech recognition, but not for self driving cars etc.

Re: The rise of AI is creating new variety in the chip market, and trouble for Intel

#26
post #13

> Instead of making ASICS or FPGAs, Intel focused in recent years on making its CPU processors ever more powerful If only, intel has been abusing their market position and pushing out "upgrades" that barely have a performance improvement over the previous generation. AI is not going to eat intel's lunch, all those computers still require cpus. AMD on the other hand may eat intel's lunch by releasing powerful multicor…

> If only, intel has been abusing their market position and pushing out "upgrades" that barely have a performance improvement over the previous generation. And why is that because of "abusing their market position", as opposed to plainly and clearly being more difficult to get faster processors at 14 nm and lower resolutions (and with the low power requirements of today)? Besides, the trend the article points to is a…

>And why is that because of "abusing their market position", as opposed to plainly and clearly being more difficult to get faster processors at 14 nm and lower resolutions (and with the low power requirements of today)?

Okay, let's say that Intel hasn't been under investing in improving the performance of their cpus. They still have 63% margins across their entire product line, they still don't have 8 core cpu options below $1000. They still don't have consumer cpu options that ditch the integrated graphics.

All of which is only possible because they have had a monopoly.

Re: The rise of AI is creating new variety in the chip market, and trouble for Intel

#27
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But analog computers do not permit error correction! Crosstalk of 10% does not affect digital data busses, but ruins analog. ECC memory is trivial with digital but not possible even in theory with analog. This (and programmability) is why we moved from super fast analog to slow digital half a century ago. Given all these constraints I am actually quite excited to hear more of the dissenting view. Can you describe som…

ISOcline.com has one approach, building an analog neuron , and digitizing the inputs and outputs to minimize noise . As a proof of concept they did a GPS chip , with 66 times higher energy efficiency. There are others working on analog neural compute , some released good research results .

ISOcline.com points to a VC webpage. You sure you have the right name?

Re: The rise of AI is creating new variety in the chip market, and trouble for Intel

#28

> Instead of making ASICS or FPGAs, Intel focused in recent years on making its CPU processors ever more powerful If only, intel has been abusing their market position and pushing out "upgrades" that barely have a performance improvement over the previous generation. AI is not going to eat intel's lunch, all those computers still require cpus. AMD on the other hand may eat intel's lunch by releasing powerful multicor…

>AMD on the other hand may eat intel's lunch by releasing powerful multicore processors for half the price all because they don't waste space on the die for things like integrated graphics.

If that's all it is isn't that going to be pretty much a simple knob for Intel to turn to respond? They already have Xeon which doesn't use the space on graphics.

The main reason for pushing iGPU on desktop so hard was so the same chips could be pretty much used on mobile I guess?

Re: The rise of AI is creating new variety in the chip market, and trouble for Intel

#29
post #27
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ISOcline.com has one approach, building an analog neuron , and digitizing the inputs and outputs to minimize noise . As a proof of concept they did a GPS chip , with 66 times higher energy efficiency. There are others working on analog neural compute , some released good research results .

ISOcline.com points to a VC webpage. You sure you have the right name?

Yeh , the company is isocline , but the URL is isosemi.com
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