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Grey goo

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Re: Grey goo

#11

Post by InclinedPlane »

asdflkj wrote: post #9
axiom wrote: post #4

This assumes that some artificial organism we construct would be more robust and efficient at self-replication than run-of-the-mill single celled organisms.

What's wrong with that assumption? There are some efficient mechanisms that evolution hasn't invented because they could not be reached by a series of gradual refinements. The wheel has long been said to be one of them, but I guess now we know that that's not strictly true. But nature's wheels are all very small and are bound to remain small because of their purpose, even though many organisms could benefit from larg…

How useful is the wheel without roads? In terms of mpg efficiency, weight efficiency, and off-road capability, the wheel seems comparably less efficient than evolved legged locomotion. At least for the purposes that are more important for animals.

Re: Grey goo

#12

Post by kiba »

noodle wrote: post #7
axiom wrote: post #4

This assumes that some artificial organism we construct would be more robust and efficient at self-replication than run-of-the-mill single celled organisms.

i'd assume that we could build something smarter than run-of-the-mill single celled organisms, which would be the important thing.

What about replicators escaping labs and evolving on their own?

Maybe we would have multiple species of replicators trying to outcompete each other.

Re: Grey goo

#13

Post by tedunangst »

InclinedPlane wrote: post #11
asdflkj wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's wrong with that assumption? There are some efficient mechanisms that evolution hasn't invented because they could not be reached by a series of gradual refinements. The wheel has long been said to be one of them, but I guess now we know that that's not strictly true. But nature's wheels are all very small and are bound to remain small because of their purpose, even though many organisms could benefit from larg…

How useful is the wheel without roads? In terms of mpg efficiency, weight efficiency, and off-road capability, the wheel seems comparably less efficient than evolved legged locomotion. At least for the purposes that are more important for animals.

Can you please provide the numbers you used to compare the mpg and weight efficiency of wheels vs legs?

Re: Grey goo

#14

Post by endtime »

tedunangst wrote: post #13
InclinedPlane wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How useful is the wheel without roads? In terms of mpg efficiency, weight efficiency, and off-road capability, the wheel seems comparably less efficient than evolved legged locomotion. At least for the purposes that are more important for animals.

Can you please provide the numbers you used to compare the mpg and weight efficiency of wheels vs legs?

I suspect InclinedPlane was...well, thinking of surfaces other than inclined planes. Some terrain can be crossed with legs but not with wheels (of comparable scale). I assume he was talking about that, rather than making a quantitative comparison across flat surfaces.

Re: Grey goo

#15

Post by huma »

Groxx wrote: post #5

Self-replicating-nanobot Earth-death final-state. Things like this always make me think of Sam's Archive's "Geocide" page. Which, by the way, points out that this does not in fact bring about the destruction of the Earth: http://qntm.org/destroy

There's another site called "Exit Mundi" that has a lot of doomsday scenarios. In particular, the grey goo problem: http://www.exitmundi.nl/graygoo.htm

Re: Grey goo

#16

Post by techiferous »

"They might be "superior" in an evolutionary sense, but this need not make them valuable."

A good reminder for businesses. If your only goal is to dominate the market, it is not a worthy goal.

Re: Grey goo

#17

Post by dmoney »

gojomo wrote: post #10

In a battle between Grey Goo and a Paperclip Maximizer, who wins? http://wiki.lesswrong.com/wiki/Paperclip_maximizer

Grey goo. A grey goo unit just needs to produce more grey goo units. A paperclip maximizer needs to produce both paperclips and other paperclip maximizers. So the goo is more efficient.

Re: Grey goo

#18

Post by nl »

asdflkj wrote: post #9
axiom wrote: post #4

This assumes that some artificial organism we construct would be more robust and efficient at self-replication than run-of-the-mill single celled organisms.

What's wrong with that assumption? There are some efficient mechanisms that evolution hasn't invented because they could not be reached by a series of gradual refinements. The wheel has long been said to be one of them, but I guess now we know that that's not strictly true. But nature's wheels are all very small and are bound to remain small because of their purpose, even though many organisms could benefit from larg…

Nuclear bomb isn't so complicated that evolution couldn't figure it out, for example, but it didn't and won't anytime soon.

That's kinda true, but there was a natural nuclear reactor: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_nuclear_fission_reactor

Also, the Sun seems to work pretty well.

If course, neither of these evolved though biological mechanisms, though, but they did arise in a natural environment. I find it difficult to imagine circumstances under which evolution would "figure out" a nuclear bomb - ie, I'm agreeing with your point that evolution usually requires a series of gradual refinements rather than a big jump forward.

Re: Grey goo

#19

Post by gojomo »

dmoney wrote: post #17
gojomo wrote: post #10

In a battle between Grey Goo and a Paperclip Maximizer, who wins? http://wiki.lesswrong.com/wiki/Paperclip_maximizer

Grey goo. A grey goo unit just needs to produce more grey goo units. A paperclip maximizer needs to produce both paperclips and other paperclip maximizers. So the goo is more efficient.

But the Paperclip Maximizer is smarter!

Re: Grey goo

#20

Post by dbz »

No one may find this interesting, but in virtual worlds, this is a very big problem. For example, in Second Life, if a bug report/ticket contains the terms "Grey Goo" (or) "Gray Goo" it is immediately taken care of. To the point where, if you are a worker who can handle it, you will be given a phone call and you must drive to your office immediately- it doesn't matter what else you are doing. Grey Goo can destroy a server in a matter of seconds.
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