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How to Be a Stoic

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Re: How to Be a Stoic

#201

Post by Retric »

coldtea wrote: post #179
Retric wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The unborn don't complain about not being concived. However, while you tied yourself in a not trying to justify some death I already said some deaths are viewed as a good thing. But, for death to be good then all death including preteen cancer patients must be good, or your not saying death is good your saying something related to death is good.

> The unborn don't complain about not being concived No, but any concept of good or bad presupposes existence. > However, while you tied yourself in a not trying to justify some death I already said some deaths are viewed as a good thing. But, for death to be good then all death including preteen cancer patients must be good, or your not saying death is good your saying something related to death is good. For evoluti…

Change such fundamental factors and the universe would probably be different. But different is not enough to say better or worse.

Re: How to Be a Stoic

#202

Post by pmoriarty »

1_player wrote: post #75
osti wrote: post #48

You desire to LIVE "according to Nature"? Oh, you noble Stoics, what fraud of words! Imagine to yourselves a being like Nature, boundlessly extravagant, boundlessly indifferent, without purpose or consideration, without pity or justice, at once fruitful and barren and uncertain: imagine to yourselves INDIFFERENCE as a power--how COULD you live in accordance with such indifference? To live--is not that just endeavorin…

Thanks for this, osti. As a stoicism fanboy I partly agree, and if it wasn't pouring outside I'd run to my local bookshop to get something from this Nietzsche fella. Any suggestion?

I'd recommend The Gay Science.[1]

[1] - https://www.amazon.com/Gay-Science-Prelude-Rhymes-Appendix/d...

Re: How to Be a Stoic

#203

Post by jungturk »

skrebbel wrote: post #184
FabHK wrote: post #73

Here some great contemporary introductions to Stoicism: 1. William B. Irvine, "A Guide to the Good Life: The Ancient Art of Stoic Joy", https://www.amazon.com/Guide-Good-Life-Ancient-Stoic/dp/0195... This is an introduction to Stoic thought as it applies today by a professor in philosophy, very clearly written. Great for first exposure. It (sensibly) skips some of the more arcane stuff, such as Stoic metaphysics (his…

> (which cannot be said of, for example, Abrahamic religions) Interesting thought! I'd say that "love thy neighbour" is a pretty substantial idea, albeit a "bit" less deep than the average stoic philosophy. Did anyone try this? Take a religion like Christianity (or one interpretation of it) and remove all the deities and miracles? As an avid Christian who dislikes dogma even more than militant atheists, I'd love to d…

Something akin to the Jefferson bible?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jefferson_Bible

Re: How to Be a Stoic

#204

Post by SmirkingRevenge »

factsaresacred wrote: post #3

‘For such a small price, I buy tranquillity.’ Beautifully put. The Penguin edition of fellow stoic Marcus Aurelius' Meditations is free on Amazon kindle: https://www.amazon.com/Meditations-Marcus-Aurelius-Wisehouse...

I wish all the drivers of the world would take this philosophy to heart :)

Re: How to Be a Stoic

#205

Post by nrook »

olavk wrote: post #70
0x445442 wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My beliefs here, take with grain of salt... If something bad happens to you it is not because God wants you to suffer but because God has given evil dominion over this place in order to facilitate free will and choice. God wants to be reconciled with every person but also wants that reconciliation to be chosen and not coerced. The suffering of innocents is just an extension of this idea.

Yes and that line of reasoning works as long as you don't think to deeply about the logic of it. But you cant really escape the fundamental paradox of a God which is both almighty and benevolent. All monotheistic religions have to struggle with this. The Book of Job in the Bible for example posits that God is almighty but not at all fair. He basically causes Job to suffer on a whim. Not out of some kind of theologica…

The Book of Job is understood by most Christians to be a literary and theological work, rather than being literally true. I highly recommend reading it to anyone who is curious about how Judaism or Christianity views the problem of evil, but you have to be reading it from the right mindset; it's not supposed to be something God actually did, even in the minds of believers.

Re: How to Be a Stoic

#206

Post by FabHK »

jungturk wrote: post #203
skrebbel wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> (which cannot be said of, for example, Abrahamic religions) Interesting thought! I'd say that "love thy neighbour" is a pretty substantial idea, albeit a "bit" less deep than the average stoic philosophy. Did anyone try this? Take a religion like Christianity (or one interpretation of it) and remove all the deities and miracles? As an avid Christian who dislikes dogma even more than militant atheists, I'd love to d…

Something akin to the Jefferson bible? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jefferson_Bible

That's awesome, didn't know about it.

Full text available online, about 20 printed pages.

Edited to add:

Here you can read it, facsimile of the original cut-and-paste (literally...) version by Jefferson. 84 pages, because it's in Greek, Latin, French and English. Love it.

http://americanhistory.si.edu/jeffersonbible/

Here's an ePub, if you want to put it on your ebook reader (note: possibly unsavoury site):

http://bookfi.net/book/1865049

Re: How to Be a Stoic

#207

Post by cs2818 »

jwdunne wrote: post #67

What is perhaps most interesting about stoicism is how it influenced cognitive therapy and CBT in a big way. These forms of therapy, along with derivatives that integrate practical ideas from Buddhism such as DBT and radical acceptance therapy, have been seen to perform as well as medication and in some cases providing longer term improvements. I think both the stoics and Buddhism were definitely on to something.

It is definitely intriguing to see the growing incorporation of "third wave" therapy techniques across many of the most popular current approaches.

I am hopeful that as we become better at measuring and understanding therapeutic change we can develop a useful model of when and how to best use the components from each approach.

Re: How to Be a Stoic

#209

Post by nik_0_0 »

jwdunne wrote: post #161
krylon wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The golden rule is an excellent way to be an awesome human being. The golden rule is not a specialty of Christianity. Some guy - I forgot the name - studied the ethical foundations of world's major religions and found variations of it across many different cultures and religions. But that kind of underlines your point. [Edit: Typo]

That's really interesting. If you do ever remember the name any time soon, let me know. I find anything like that fascinating.

Not the same as parent, but a good comparison of the Golden Rule from "Plato and Platypus Walk Into A Bar" (any mistakes are likely mine):

The Golden Rule

```

Hinduism - 13th Century BC

Do not as to others what ye do not wish done to yourself...This is the whole Dharma. Heed it well.

- The Mahabharata

Judiasm - 13th Century BC

What is hateful to you, do not do to your neighbor; that is the entire Torah; the rest is commentary; go learn it.

- The Babylonian Talmud

Zoroastrianism - 12th Century BC

Human nature is good only when it does not do unto another whatever is not good for its own self.

- The Dadistan-i-Dinik

Buddhism - 6th Century BC

Hurt not others in ways that you yourself would find hurtful.

- The Tibetan Bhammapada

Confucianism - 6th Century BC

Do not do to others what you do not want done to yourself.

- Confucious, Analects

```

Re: How to Be a Stoic

#210

Post by krylon »

nik_0_0 wrote: post #209
jwdunne wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's really interesting. If you do ever remember the name any time soon, let me know. I find anything like that fascinating.

Not the same as parent, but a good comparison of the Golden Rule from "Plato and Platypus Walk Into A Bar" (any mistakes are likely mine): The Golden Rule ``` Hinduism - 13th Century BC Do not as to others what ye do not wish done to yourself...This is the whole Dharma. Heed it well. - The Mahabharata Judiasm - 13th Century BC What is hateful to you, do not do to your neighbor; that is the entire Torah; the rest is c…

Thank you!

(Walking into a bar is, to this very day, a good way of getting to know one another or oneself, but one has to be prepared to face certain facts about oneself.)

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