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How to Be a Stoic

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Re: How to Be a Stoic

#191

Post by FabHK »

skrebbel wrote: post #184
FabHK wrote: post #73

Here some great contemporary introductions to Stoicism: 1. William B. Irvine, "A Guide to the Good Life: The Ancient Art of Stoic Joy", https://www.amazon.com/Guide-Good-Life-Ancient-Stoic/dp/0195... This is an introduction to Stoic thought as it applies today by a professor in philosophy, very clearly written. Great for first exposure. It (sensibly) skips some of the more arcane stuff, such as Stoic metaphysics (his…

> (which cannot be said of, for example, Abrahamic religions) Interesting thought! I'd say that "love thy neighbour" is a pretty substantial idea, albeit a "bit" less deep than the average stoic philosophy. Did anyone try this? Take a religion like Christianity (or one interpretation of it) and remove all the deities and miracles? As an avid Christian who dislikes dogma even more than militant atheists, I'd love to d…

Hi, well, first I must admit that that by itself is not an original thought, of course. I've most recently read it in Sam Harris' Waking Up: A Guide to Spirituality Without Religion.

I've made the same comment (nothing original, as I said... :) elsewhere in this thread, and someone replied with the golden rule, maybe you want to read the discussion:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13731755

Elsewhere, the argument has been made that the miraculous parts of Christianity (virgin birth, resurrection, etc.) are largely not original, but collages of earlier prophets, though I couldn't point you to that literature off the top of my head, and it's not the point we're discussing anyways.

Re: How to Be a Stoic

#192

Post by FabHK »

stinkytaco wrote: post #142
jwdunne wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the same is true for Christianity too. The golden rule is an excellent way to be an awesome human being. I think that's a better motive than a good afterlife. I haven't studied other religions to much but I am dead sure there are timeless pieces of advice. My opinion, and I stress opinion, is that much of the world's religions offered a way of life that attempted to reduce violence, illness and suffering. Eve…

I just want to throw out there that dietary restrictions are ultimately tribal. Kosher and halal laws are full of obscure and pointless restrictions (such as ritual slaughter and prohibition on eating foods prepared under an idol) that have nothing to do with health, but everything to do with establishing who is "us" and who is "them".

Good point, to enforce in-group, out-group.

There is the evolutionary psychology notion that food preferences are initially wide open: children initially eat everything they're given, basically trusting their parents, but then later those preferences solidify (German proverb: "Was der Bauer nicht kennt, frisst er nicht", i.e. what the farmer doesn't know, he doesn't eat).

So, that would make dietary rules particularly suited as such a tribal shibboleth (easy to create, relatively easy to abide by, hard to fake).

I seem to recall that after the Spanish reconquista, muslims faced conversion or expulsion, and if they chose conversion, they were forced to eat pork to "prove" it...

[Edit: eco-psych -> evolutionary psychology)

Re: How to Be a Stoic

#193

Post by CuriouslyC »

FabHK wrote: post #187
CuriouslyC wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Human consciousness isn't human, in fact it isn't even brain consciousness (since we aren't conscious of everything that goes on in our brains) but rather the property of some (comparatively) small number of neurons. Ultimately, this is just a system of coupled biochemical reactions. There isn't really a meaningful difference between a single cell and a small network of neurons in terms of specific biochemical reacti…

If we achieve consciousness in machines, would that affect your opinion? I feel it is consistent with my stance, that awareness is indeed a property of a configuration of (entirely unconscious) matter. The configuration is extremely specific in the sense that almost all possible configurations have no consciousness, but somewhat general in that there are still infinitely many configurations that do. I still stick to…

How do you know computers don't experience their existence? We assume because they behave predictably that this indicates they are unaware automata, but assume I asked you if you would like me to put a gun to your head and pull the trigger. You would answer no with extremely high probability. Just because your answer is predictable doesn't indicate that there is no awareness behind it. In fact, there is almost certainly something that it is "like" to be a tightly coupled system of transistors. Of course, that experience is undoubtedly very different from ours.

Part of the problem is that consciousness is a nebulous term that conflates awareness, self-awareness and intelligence. Specifically, I'm only speaking of awareness here.

Also, when sand undergoes chemical reactions, how do you know that isn't a simple form of information processing?

Re: How to Be a Stoic

#194

Post by antman »

mmmBacon wrote: post #153

I have embraced certain aspects of stoic philosophy in my life. In particular I've found The Meditations by Marcus Aurelius to be helpful and practical. I struggle with my temper and in the last few years my temper has affected my career growth. These stoic works have helped my get a better grip on things when dealing with especially difficult people. I'm not a person who reads self help books nor am I into cheesy or…

A very important book, and especially if someone gets "Meditations: A new translation" by Hays. The translations available online don't explain the context of Aurelius life, and are hard to read.

Re: How to Be a Stoic

#195

Post by specialist »

mmmBacon wrote: post #153

I have embraced certain aspects of stoic philosophy in my life. In particular I've found The Meditations by Marcus Aurelius to be helpful and practical. I struggle with my temper and in the last few years my temper has affected my career growth. These stoic works have helped my get a better grip on things when dealing with especially difficult people. I'm not a person who reads self help books nor am I into cheesy or…

I too had an anger management problem. I didn't like who I was or how I behaved. I tried every thing, every book, every bit of advice. Most of it terrible. Failure.

Part 1:

I eventually found quality help, who then recommended I read this:

When Anger Hurts

http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/278196.When_Anger_Hurts

TL;DR: Anger is a cascade: Expectations, disappointment, resentment, blame and then BOOM anger. The fix to anger is to eliminate your expectations.

Part 2:

Awareness of the psychology only got me so far. I struggled to change my habits. Recalling that you can only replace a habit, vs unlearn, I decided to pretend to be happy. I would tell people "I'm fantastic! How are you?!" It started out sarcastic, wry.

About three years later, I woke up one day, thought "I feel phenomenal" and actually meant it. I was shocked. I didn't even notice the change.

TL;DR: How you talk changes how you think.

Good luck. Please believe me when I say the effort is worthwhile.

Re: How to Be a Stoic

#196

Post by buzzybee »

camdenlock wrote: post #169

Hmm. To be honest, this philosophy seems like a flowery and overstuffed version of secular mindfulness, like an earlier step along the evolutionary path to what would eventually be a really simple, straightforward strategy for learning about and being with one's own mind in a skillful way. If it helps you suffer less: great. But before you dive in, know that you might be able to save a lot of time and avoid a lot of…

Stoicism is about achieving freedom, mindfulness is incidental to that.

Re: How to Be a Stoic

#197

Post by mikehain »

Another classic book to look at is "Letters from a Stoic" by Seneca the Younger, published by Penguin Classics. Seneca is perhaps my favorite of the Stoics.

Re: How to Be a Stoic

#198

Post by qznc »

kwhitefoot wrote: post #181
s_kilk wrote: post #23

[Shameless plug] You can read Marcus Aurelius "Meditations" at http://directingmind.com

Is there a way to convert this to epub? It would be a lot easier to read on my phone then.

There is a markdown version [0]. That is easy to convert. For example, use pandoc.

[0] http://directingmind.com/meditations.md

Re: How to Be a Stoic

#199

Post by s_kilk »

qznc wrote: post #198
kwhitefoot wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there a way to convert this to epub? It would be a lot easier to read on my phone then.

There is a markdown version [0]. That is easy to convert. For example, use pandoc. [0] http://directingmind.com/meditations.md

Yup, probably the best way. Next weekend I might compile an ePub and add it to the site though

Re: How to Be a Stoic

#200

Post by FabHK »

CuriouslyC wrote: post #193
FabHK wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If we achieve consciousness in machines, would that affect your opinion? I feel it is consistent with my stance, that awareness is indeed a property of a configuration of (entirely unconscious) matter. The configuration is extremely specific in the sense that almost all possible configurations have no consciousness, but somewhat general in that there are still infinitely many configurations that do. I still stick to…

How do you know computers don't experience their existence? We assume because they behave predictably that this indicates they are unaware automata, but assume I asked you if you would like me to put a gun to your head and pull the trigger. You would answer no with extremely high probability. Just because your answer is predictable doesn't indicate that there is no awareness behind it. In fact, there is almost certai…

Agreed on the predictability. In fact, I'm a bit of compatibilist, i.e. subscribing to the notion that free will and determinism are compatible.

And I've seen the argument being made that consciousness is fundamental and prior to anything else (Chalmers? Don't recall.)

But I disagree for now, and I think awareness is an emergent property dependent on various pre-conditions (like perception, a model of self, possibly "embodied cognition" (not sure about that), etc.), and it's absurd to speak of a few atoms having awareness.

(With modern computers, we might be getting there at some point...)

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