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How to Be a Stoic

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Re: How to Be a Stoic

#11

Post by Pamar »

gattilorenz wrote: post #9
karyon wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually, that quote was the one sentence I didn't understand. Who's spilling the wine? And why does that buy tranquility? If you could help me that would be great :)

I read it as "instead of getting angry for losing a 20$ note, consider it the price you pay for tranquility". Which maybe works for yourself, but most of my significant others of the past would just start complaining that I lost a 20$ bill.

Another Stoic tip:

Most people are annoying: educate them or just put up with them, there is no third option. Also, always remember you are equally annoying to at least some of them.

Re: How to Be a Stoic

#12

Post by kgwgk »

karyon wrote: post #7
factsaresacred wrote: post #3

‘For such a small price, I buy tranquillity.’ Beautifully put. The Penguin edition of fellow stoic Marcus Aurelius' Meditations is free on Amazon kindle: https://www.amazon.com/Meditations-Marcus-Aurelius-Wisehouse...

Actually, that quote was the one sentence I didn't understand. Who's spilling the wine? And why does that buy tranquility? If you could help me that would be great :)

Don't cry over spilled milk (or oil). If someone steals your wine, get over it and continue with your life.

Re: How to Be a Stoic

#13

Post by briancleland »

karyon wrote: post #7
factsaresacred wrote: post #3

‘For such a small price, I buy tranquillity.’ Beautifully put. The Penguin edition of fellow stoic Marcus Aurelius' Meditations is free on Amazon kindle: https://www.amazon.com/Meditations-Marcus-Aurelius-Wisehouse...

Actually, that quote was the one sentence I didn't understand. Who's spilling the wine? And why does that buy tranquility? If you could help me that would be great :)

Adversity provides the opportunity to practice tranquility. If you let go of the wine, you gain peace of mind in return.

Re: How to Be a Stoic

#14

Post by factsaresacred »

karyon wrote: post #7
factsaresacred wrote: post #3

‘For such a small price, I buy tranquillity.’ Beautifully put. The Penguin edition of fellow stoic Marcus Aurelius' Meditations is free on Amazon kindle: https://www.amazon.com/Meditations-Marcus-Aurelius-Wisehouse...

Actually, that quote was the one sentence I didn't understand. Who's spilling the wine? And why does that buy tranquility? If you could help me that would be great :)

I think the premise leading to the sentence is absurd: "And, if I pretended not to notice these slights, wasn’t I proving that I really was a disengaged, privileged oppressor?".

But the author is trying to reason with her anger in the face of perceived slights - verbalise it or hold it inside?

Epictetus suggests that small losses (of wine or of 'face') should simply be forgotten. They are sunk-costs whose expense has been incurred.

One need not pay more - in the form of one's tranquility or contentment - by dwelling on them.

Re: How to Be a Stoic

#15

Post by Synaesthesia »

manmal wrote: post #2

One interesting thing I've noticed is that ancient Stoics have not rebuked the concept of god (or "the universe"), a higher power that determines all the things that are not in our control (as a Stoic you very much need to distinguish between things in and outside of your control). I have found it difficult to really, deeply, accept things as out of my control without resorting to some concept of god or "the universe…

The universe is completely indifferent to our suffering and that's incredibly bleak but positivity still exists because we create the own meaning to our life and find positivity in the usual things, comraderie, being creative, family, friendship.

Re: How to Be a Stoic

#16

Post by dbrunton »

manmal wrote: post #2

One interesting thing I've noticed is that ancient Stoics have not rebuked the concept of god (or "the universe"), a higher power that determines all the things that are not in our control (as a Stoic you very much need to distinguish between things in and outside of your control). I have found it difficult to really, deeply, accept things as out of my control without resorting to some concept of god or "the universe…

I'm not a Stoic, but I like your question. Would you mind too much if I slightly re-worded it? "...retained a positive outlook while projecting no intrinsic meaning onto the universe..."

I was raised with the idea that belief (specifically, The Belief That Jesus Died To Take Away My Sins) is the source of a positive outlook. I think this kind of a warm snuggle (if you can accept a violent and prolonged execution as such) from The Universe is lovely. But it has not been my experience that it has been particularly conducive to my own well-being.

To take this back to your question, rebuking the concept of god is not tied to my well-being either. For me, a positive outlook is largely distinct from cosmology. And a nice side effect of thoughts arranged in this way is that god, the universe, a higher power are un-fundamental. My philosophical approach can constantly grown and change, and that helps me act in a way that is kind and brave.

If you agreed to my rewording of your question up above, then my answer is "yes". YMMV.

Re: How to Be a Stoic

#17

Post by TurboHaskal »

Synaesthesia wrote: post #15
manmal wrote: post #2

One interesting thing I've noticed is that ancient Stoics have not rebuked the concept of god (or "the universe"), a higher power that determines all the things that are not in our control (as a Stoic you very much need to distinguish between things in and outside of your control). I have found it difficult to really, deeply, accept things as out of my control without resorting to some concept of god or "the universe…

The universe is completely indifferent to our suffering and that's incredibly bleak but positivity still exists because we create the own meaning to our life and find positivity in the usual things, comraderie, being creative, family, friendship.

Hi there Stanley.

Re: How to Be a Stoic

#18

Post by [deleted] »

kapv89 wrote: post #8
manmal wrote: post #2

One interesting thing I've noticed is that ancient Stoics have not rebuked the concept of god (or "the universe"), a higher power that determines all the things that are not in our control (as a Stoic you very much need to distinguish between things in and outside of your control). I have found it difficult to really, deeply, accept things as out of my control without resorting to some concept of god or "the universe…

I don't find it too hard to accept the concept of "the universe as a well meaning entity". The only premise you need to accept in order to come to this conclusion is to not view your consciousness as a unique snowflake. Imagine that a white blood cell in your body has a consciousness of its own, where it, in its own way does its job when needed, hangs out with its "co-workers", other white-blood-cells, and red-blood-…

[deleted]

Re: How to Be a Stoic

#19

Post by zipfle »

manmal wrote: post #2

One interesting thing I've noticed is that ancient Stoics have not rebuked the concept of god (or "the universe"), a higher power that determines all the things that are not in our control (as a Stoic you very much need to distinguish between things in and outside of your control). I have found it difficult to really, deeply, accept things as out of my control without resorting to some concept of god or "the universe…

The Tao Te Ching spends a lot of words talking about this. I'm partial to the Stephen Mitchell version.

Also Ecclesiastes (basically, the Judeo-Christian reimplementation of Buddhism) is pretty vocal on the subject.

http://acc6.its.brooklyn.cuny.edu/%7Ephalsall/texts/taote-v3...

Re: How to Be a Stoic

#20

Post by njharman »

manmal wrote: post #2

One interesting thing I've noticed is that ancient Stoics have not rebuked the concept of god (or "the universe"), a higher power that determines all the things that are not in our control (as a Stoic you very much need to distinguish between things in and outside of your control). I have found it difficult to really, deeply, accept things as out of my control without resorting to some concept of god or "the universe…

The universe is bleak and uncaring (but it is, probably, deterministic (I'm a pilot wave kind of guy)... getting sidetracked here).

And the universe is outside of your control. Therefore you should not let it have any impact on your outlook.

Also, wanting a positive outlook is a desire. And desires are suffering. And having a "positive outlook" is pre-judging things, filling up your mind with assumptions. When you should be trying to empty it. But, I'm more of a Taoist than Stoic (although there seems to be fair amount of overlap).

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