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Using Neutrino to jump-start modern JavaScript development

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Re: Using Neutrino to jump-start modern JavaScript development

#41

Post by sdegutis »

RubenSandwich wrote: post #33
sdegutis wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But creating and running a Hello World GUI app for iOS only takes a few seconds, even when running it on your live device.

Not really an apt comparison as iOS is a complete ecosystem controlled by one party, so choices are made for you. I'd say comparing it to a Hello World GUI app in C++ would be, as C++ also has a proliferation of build tools and graphics libraries that you have to choice before you can make a Hello World GUI app.

Good point. Although I guess my broader point is that the decentralized nature of web development is actually kind of a huge disadvantage in pretty much every way except "flexibility", and that the cons very much outweigh the pros.

Re: Using Neutrino to jump-start modern JavaScript development

#42

Post by zzalpha »

tobltobs wrote: post #11
underwater wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This appears to be the opposite of boilerplate. It's a tool that replaces verbose, brittle, code with a single dependency.

Boilerplate framework?

Personally, I'm looking forward to five more of these projects springing up, after which someone can great a meta boilerplate framework for abstracting all the boilerplate frameworks. It can have its own meta preset format that translates into the six other preset formats so you, the lucky developer, can pick your open boilerplate generator and rely on this boilerplate generator generator to hide everything behind a common, leaky interface!

We'll call it Hadron, since Hadron decay can result in the production of Neutrinos...

Re: Using Neutrino to jump-start modern JavaScript development

#43

Post by omouse »

caseymarquis wrote: post #3

Maybe it's just me, but I didn't find it all that difficult to get started with webpack after a few tutorials and samples. This seems like it hides away something that people should probably understand, which isn't all that difficult to get started with. Also when you start combining different packages in webpack (or encounter an error (or want to make some decisions in the config script)), the standard copy/paste bo…

It's just you. No one actually likes fighting against webpack so that they can concatenate JavaScript files in the correct order.

Re: Using Neutrino to jump-start modern JavaScript development

#44

Post by omouse »

philmander wrote: post #12
tobltobs wrote: post #2

Javascript Boilerplate Fatigue

After just reading the title, I assumed the same thing, but actually this is exactly what web development needs. create-react-app is a great example of a project that abstracts away all the complexities of a JavaScript build process and dev environment, but customization inevitably requires you to 'eject' and reintroduce that complexity to your project. This tool goes one step further and supports customization witho…

What complexities of build processes?!

Building Javascript files with modules and deps is a solved problem. We've built all sorts of other file types and compiled them and linked them before with tools like Make, SCons and other tools. It's ridiculous to think that JavaScript is a unique language that needs its own build tools. It does not.

We went down the wrong path years ago when we decided that whenever we use a language we also need to use tools written in that language. Grunt, gulp, webpack and the rest should go away.

Re: Using Neutrino to jump-start modern JavaScript development

#45

Post by bastawhiz »

omouse wrote: post #43
caseymarquis wrote: post #3

Maybe it's just me, but I didn't find it all that difficult to get started with webpack after a few tutorials and samples. This seems like it hides away something that people should probably understand, which isn't all that difficult to get started with. Also when you start combining different packages in webpack (or encounter an error (or want to make some decisions in the config script)), the standard copy/paste bo…

It's just you. No one actually likes fighting against webpack so that they can concatenate JavaScript files in the correct order.

Can you explain that experience more? Are you not using any sort of module system?

If you're simply concatenating files together, Webpack is decidedly the wrong tool. The magic that Webpack does is understand what you're require()ing and automagically just make a bundle for you. Point it at your project root, and you get a bundle.

Re: Using Neutrino to jump-start modern JavaScript development

#47

Post by Touche »

mikewhy wrote: post #18
ryanbrunner wrote: post #7

I think this is a cool tool, but it's somewhere between funny and depressing that the article brags about how they were able to get a 'Hello, world!' program up in less than 5 minutes .

A Hello World GUI app, which is a fairly important distinction. Also one that runs on any machine with a web browser.

Here's one that's even faster:

    > echo 'Hello world' > hello-world.html

Re: Using Neutrino to jump-start modern JavaScript development

#48

Post by Touche »

talkingtab wrote: post #29

Is there a simple example of how to add something like react-router, redux and bootstrap as to presets to neutrino. My problem with CRA is that while very helpful(!) I am often faced with having to add those kinds of components.

I'm not part of the React ecosystem so please excuse my ignorance, but why would adding a library require changing a build? Wouldn't you just npm/yarn install those things and use them?

Re: Using Neutrino to jump-start modern JavaScript development

#49

Post by dagw »

caseymarquis wrote: post #3

Maybe it's just me, but I didn't find it all that difficult to get started with webpack after a few tutorials and samples. This seems like it hides away something that people should probably understand, which isn't all that difficult to get started with. Also when you start combining different packages in webpack (or encounter an error (or want to make some decisions in the config script)), the standard copy/paste bo…

I didn't find it all that difficult to get started with webpack after a few tutorials and samples

Neither did I until one day I tried to do something slightly outside those tutorials and the whole thing kind of stopped working for reasons I could never fully understand.

That being said I'm still using webpack, but it's not really an enjoyable experience.

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