Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Facts about migration and crime in Sweden

government.se

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

211–220 of 466 posts

Re: Facts about migration and crime in Sweden

#211

Post by lngnmn »

jkscm wrote: post #182
lngnmn wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is plainly wrong. Socioeconomic factors are not the major ones. Culture, habits and social conditioning in general are. People who do not share (or even comprehend) the shared values of other cultures have no respect to them and perceive others as "aliens". This works both ways. The cultural incompatibility and different social conditioning are the major factors. Basically, well-educated people of any origin wou…

[citation needed] Socioeconomic factors are significant factors: http://www.apa.org/pi/ses/resources/publications/violence.as... As a side note: You seem to agree with your parent poster since you mention “well-educated people” which are most likely richer.

Education is asymmetric. Educated could clearly see the world in the same naive way as uneducated, but the contrary is not true. This constitutes the fundamental difference and incompatibility which is supposed to be eliminated by providing the basic right for receiving an education.

Re: Facts about migration and crime in Sweden

#212

Post by leereeves »

eksemplar wrote: post #199

Did you read the information provided? Here is the tldr as you obviously didn't. Crime has decreased in Sweden. Crime amongst immigrants in Sweden has decreased throughout the migrant crisis. Most violent crime in Sweden is performed by ethnical Swedes. Most sexual assaults in Sweden are performed by ethnical Swedes. These are official numbers from one of the least corrupt governments in the world, and if you want to…

Did you read the article?

Yes, it says crime has decreased over the last 20-25 years.

It also says that over the last few years:

the level [of lethal violence] in 2015 – when a total of 112 cases of lethal violence were reported – was higher than for many years.

lethal violence using firearms has increased within the context of criminal conflicts. The number of confirmed or suspected shootings was 20 per cent higher in 2014 than in 2006. The statistics also show that 17 people were killed with firearms in 2011, while the corresponding figure in 2015 was 33.

Re: Facts about migration and crime in Sweden

#213

Post by edblarney »

peteretep wrote: post #173
lngnmn wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is plainly wrong. Socioeconomic factors are not the major ones. Culture, habits and social conditioning in general are. People who do not share (or even comprehend) the shared values of other cultures have no respect to them and perceive others as "aliens". This works both ways. The cultural incompatibility and different social conditioning are the major factors. Basically, well-educated people of any origin wou…

> Socioeconomic factors are > not the major ones ... is your opinion, contradicted by the available evidence. You finish with a suggestion to call things "by its real names", so I will: pushing a false narrative of cultural superiority is racism. Begone.

"... is your opinion, contradicted by the available evidence"

This is false.

In fact - the evidence points much more strongly towards 'behaviour' than it does 'economic status'.

(By the way, I'm not making the case entirely that 'ethnicity is it' - rather, saying that there's tons of evidence to support it. I believe that it's rather more complicated).

'Economic status' is loosely correlated with crime in the USA for example. More crime is committed in poorer areas. Ok - so are they poor and therefore commit crime - or they have bad behaviours and are therefore poor?

The problem is - 'ethnicity' is considerably more correlated with crime, particularly violent crime.

For example, poor African Americans commit considerably more violent crime than their poor White or Asian peers.

Now - you could argue it's due to 'racism' etc. - and that's a good point, but it only goes so far.

Also - I'd argue that this is not about 'racism' - it's about 'ethnicity'. What is 'ethnicity' but a group of values, behaviours, norms, viewpoints, beliefs, patterns etc? Two groups with different ethnic backgrounds are likely to have very different outcomes overall in life. That's just reality - and it doesn't have to have anything to do with race.

I'm not actually making an argument one way or another - I think there's a lot to be said for how hard it is go grow up poor, or how hard it is to grow up facing racism and injustice - but at the same time - behaviours, mannerism, values etc. will define most of an individuals future - and those are passed down to children from their parents, and close community members, i.e. ethnicity. So it would be basically crazy to ignore this issue as well.

Re: Facts about migration and crime in Sweden

#215

Post by AlexTelon »

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #166
gaff33 wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They talk about it in the article > People from foreign backgrounds are suspected of crimes more often than people from a Swedish background [...] In a later study, researchers at Stockholm University showed that the main difference in terms of criminal activity between immigrants and others in the population was due to differences in the socioeconomic conditions in which they grew up in Sweden. So it seems that whil…

> So it seems that whilst immigrants are suspected of more crimes than average, they commit the same amount of crime as poor deprived members of indigenous populations. "Commit the same level of crime as the subset of the population who commit the highest level of crime" does not sound very reassuring.

The quote was:

"In a later study, researchers at Stockholm University showed that the main difference in terms of criminal activity between immigrants and others in the population was due to differences in the socioeconomic conditions in which they grew up in Sweden."

That means that the most important factor in terms of criminal activity is that immigrants are largely poor and poor commit more crimes. Not that rich immigrants perform as much crimes as the poorest of non-immigrants.

Or do you disagree with that assesment of what the study said?

Re: Facts about migration and crime in Sweden

#216

Post by piva00 »

sheraz wrote: post #59
piva00 wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, not like that at the fucking all. I live in Stockholm, I just came today to my home from a friend's place that is in one of these pesky little maps marking it as a "no-go zone". Seriously, there's nothing alarming there at all, it's a very normal area a little bit outside the center with more affordable housing (compared to the center of Stockholm but not even near "cheap") and that's about it. I've stayed on tha…

Which t-bana stop or neighborhood?

I live by Hornstull, my friend lives in Älvsjö near Tussmötevägen and my friend in Kista lives about 10 min from Rinkeby.

It's kinda ridiculous when I see a map where they mark "Enskede" as a no-go zone.

Re: Facts about migration and crime in Sweden

#217

Post by k_swden »

fpig wrote: post #163
dagenleg wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Frankly, compared to internal Russian and Ukrainian news they were the epitome of unbiased journalism. The Ukrainian coverage was and is very subjective, but they did not resort to outright lies much more than media usually does. Malaysian plane is a very good example of this - they were floating a lot of mad theories absolving Moscow of any guilt but in the end they were still reported just as "versions". It's very…

Yes, there are even worse pieces of trash than RT somewhere out there. There's a paper in my country that claims the Earth is flat, that's not the sort of media I am comparing RT to because I don't trust those papers at all either. The New Gazette (Gorbachev's paper) is internal Russian media and did not run a full retard propaganda campaign on this issue. They printed "Forgive us, Netherlands" on their cover page. T…

New Gazette is english translation, ru-english is "Novaya Gazeta"

The five journalist you mentioned are on this list https://cpj.org/killed/europe/russia/ with over 50 russian journalist killed, and not a single one is from RT, I wonder why...

Re: Facts about migration and crime in Sweden

#218

Post by peteretep »

aaron-lebo wrote: post #185
peteretep wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Socioeconomic factors are > not the major ones ... is your opinion, contradicted by the available evidence. You finish with a suggestion to call things "by its real names", so I will: pushing a false narrative of cultural superiority is racism. Begone.

Cultures advance. Some are more refined and progressive than others. The practice of throwing homosexuals to their deaths is obviously not enlightened. Of course other cultures have their faults, too, but to argue that comparing cultures is racism is willfully ignorant.

The parent comment stated that differences were due to culture and not baseline economic status. This is inspite of evidence.

What alternative explanation - other than racism or ignorance - is there for that mistruth?

Re: Facts about migration and crime in Sweden

#219

Post by cfv »

ra1n85 wrote: post #58
piva00 wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, not like that at the fucking all. I live in Stockholm, I just came today to my home from a friend's place that is in one of these pesky little maps marking it as a "no-go zone". Seriously, there's nothing alarming there at all, it's a very normal area a little bit outside the center with more affordable housing (compared to the center of Stockholm but not even near "cheap") and that's about it. I've stayed on tha…

What's with the uptick in "grenade attacks"? Seems like there's been more in 2016 than in the four year period leading up to 2012? Really curious as to how this is a thing. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_grenade_attacks_in_Swe...

Reading your link I counted a hundred and twenty in 19 years. For about 9 million people in Sweden, that's a 120/(19 * 9 * 10^6) change of something happening each year. That's insanely small, compared to, say, the amount of people dying in bathtubs while intoxicated, which works out to 4377/(19 * 9 * 10^6) assuming this is a stagnant problem. (http://bmcpublichealth.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/14...)

Look, I'm fully aware you need to panic, and I'm fully aware this need is being satisfied by a bunch of cronies standing to make heaps of money on your panic. Just know your fear is not justified and should not be the reason for aiding the raise of fascism in europe.

Re: Facts about migration and crime in Sweden

#220

Post by rbehrends »

polack wrote: post #70
otalp wrote: post #23

According to the official statistics on The Swedish Crime Survey, the sexual violence rate in Sweden remained about the same between 2005 and 2014. The refugee crisis began around 2014, and since then, the rates for sexual violence went down in 2015[1] something you never see mentioned on certain parts of the internet. 2016 saw an increase in crimes, but still less than pre-immigration levels in 2014. Also the Swedis…

It's totally irrelevant that the crimes has decreased. The point is that a majority of all violence and sexual crimes is performed by immigrants (as confirmed by Sweden's most famous crime professor GW a couple of days ago). Why are you so afraid to see that immigrants are over represented in this category of crimes?

The problem is that "immigrants" is an extremely imprecise category. I don't know enough about Sweden, but I know that in Germany, foreign crime is primarily dominated by organized crime from abroad: pickpocket gangs from North Africa, burglary gangs from Serbia and Georgia, the Russian Mafia, Lebanese crime clans, etc.

In contrast, Syrian refugees seem to be among the most law-abiding foreigners you can find (followed by Iraqi refugees, as I recall).

"Immigrants" is a fairly useless category for criminological purposes, as it combines several other categories with vastly different profiles, some with outsized crime rates, some below that of natives.

Post reply on HN