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Facts about migration and crime in Sweden

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Re: Facts about migration and crime in Sweden

#201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd say THAT is irrelevant. If I become victim of a crime, it doesn't console me if the perpetrator is poor. I just don't want to become a victim of a crime.

It is relevant to the topic of how to prevent crime - it tells you that eliminating immigration won't help, but that addressing poverty will.

Well, except some immigration adds to the number of people in poverty, so avoiding immigration that does that would address poverty and by extension crime.

This is reasonable, unless the theory is that when an immigrant arrives in Sweden, a person already in poverty gets 'promoted' and the immigrant takes their poverty space, thus keeping poverty levels constant.

Re: Facts about migration and crime in Sweden

#202
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same as in Belgium then. They even throw stones at fire-fighters when they are doing their job. So nothing to worry about, right? And I don't know if it is the same in Sweden, but you are not really politically allowed to say what kind of people live in those neighborhoods. So again, nothing to worry about.

No, not like that at the fucking all. I live in Stockholm, I just came today to my home from a friend's place that is in one of these pesky little maps marking it as a "no-go zone". Seriously, there's nothing alarming there at all, it's a very normal area a little bit outside the center with more affordable housing (compared to the center of Stockholm but not even near "cheap") and that's about it. I've stayed on tha…

I don't live in Sweden so I don't have a great perspective to corroborate or rebut what you are saying. Instead, I googled "Kista sweden crime" with a filter for -1 year, and also searched for "Kista" in the one Swedish newspaper that I know of, "Aftonbladet", using google translate to confirm that an article was about a crime.

The google results were mostly commentary, the only useful report I could get out of them was this one:

http://ciwnews.com/2017/02/16/2-africans-sentenced-for-assau...

"Aftonbladet" provided much more results, I stopped after the first two pages, which seemed to encompass Jan-Feb 2017:

http://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/a/A1e8r/smash-and-grab-mot...

http://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/a/kgErL/inbrott-i-telebuti...

http://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/a/bP5Jk/pistolman-trangde-...

http://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/a/GRowx/god-morgon-det-har...

http://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/a/x2non/oppnade-for-hemtja...

(most of these are from january and february 2017).

Re: Facts about migration and crime in Sweden

#203
post #174
post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is plainly wrong. Socioeconomic factors are not the major ones. Culture, habits and social conditioning in general are. People who do not share (or even comprehend) the shared values of other cultures have no respect to them and perceive others as "aliens". This works both ways. The cultural incompatibility and different social conditioning are the major factors. Basically, well-educated people of any origin wou…

What are your sources that try to prove that socioeconomic factors are not 'the major ones', to the extent that that you can confidently state that it is 'plainly' wrong to attribute differences to poverty and lack of education?

It is obvious - poor but educated people are different from poor and uneducated. To lift people out of misery and poverty is what education is for in the first place.

In countries like India that could be clearly seen. Poverty alone does not account for the behavioral patterns. Education is the key. People knew this since antiquity, independently of a particular civilization - Indians knew this, Chinese knew this, you name it.

Re: Facts about migration and crime in Sweden

#204
post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Frankly, compared to internal Russian and Ukrainian news they were the epitome of unbiased journalism. The Ukrainian coverage was and is very subjective, but they did not resort to outright lies much more than media usually does. Malaysian plane is a very good example of this - they were floating a lot of mad theories absolving Moscow of any guilt but in the end they were still reported just as "versions". It's very…

Yes, there are even worse pieces of trash than RT somewhere out there. There's a paper in my country that claims the Earth is flat, that's not the sort of media I am comparing RT to because I don't trust those papers at all either. The New Gazette (Gorbachev's paper) is internal Russian media and did not run a full retard propaganda campaign on this issue. They printed "Forgive us, Netherlands" on their cover page. T…

I don't think I would be too wrong to group RT journalists with the same people who instigated the Iraq war or the Libya fiasco. Sorry, but the western media that reported on "Gadaffi supplying troops with viagra to rape better" is as credible as the Kremlin mouthpiece to me.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/apr/29/diplomat-gadda...

Re: Facts about migration and crime in Sweden

#205
post #23

According to the official statistics on The Swedish Crime Survey, the sexual violence rate in Sweden remained about the same between 2005 and 2014. The refugee crisis began around 2014, and since then, the rates for sexual violence went down in 2015[1] something you never see mentioned on certain parts of the internet. 2016 saw an increase in crimes, but still less than pre-immigration levels in 2014. Also the Swedis…

> According to the official statistics on The Swedish Crime Survey, the sexual violence rate in Sweden remained about the same between 2005 and 2014

Why picking the period 2005 to 2014? Immigration started 1960s and increased a lot 2014-2016. It would make a lot more sense to look at the sexual violence rate 1960-2016. Do you dare?

Re: Facts about migration and crime in Sweden

#206
post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So now I'm confused. Does a low approval rate matter, is it "bad data"? What defines "bad data"? Say the statistics running around this thread specifically about crime in countries, broken down by race and type or crime, or broken down further by region within counties too. How does one determine "good data" vs "bad data" here?

Sorry you're confused. Point was pretty clear: US polling data was not found to correlate strongly with reality, so treat it with some suspicion. Can't really break it down further than that.

So saying an event has a 10% chance of happening, and then it happening after one roll of the dice, is enough reason to doubt the data?

Re: Facts about migration and crime in Sweden

#207
OK, I'm going to address two claims together:

> "The number of reported rapes in Sweden has risen. But the definition of rape has broadened over time, which makes it difficult to compare the figures. It is also misleading to compare the figures with other countries, as many acts that are considered rape under Swedish law are not considered rape in many other countries."

and:

> "the main difference in terms of criminal activity between immigrants and others in the population was due to differences in the socioeconomic conditions in which they grew up in Sweden."

Firstly, "socioeconomic conditions" can not excuse away rape or murder. And even if they could, that's little solace to the victims of these crimes. Secondly the study they are referring to states that "socioeconomic conditions" can explain 50% to 75% of the difference. Even then, what about the other 25% to 50%?

As for the redefinition of rape, it was expanded in April 2005 to include acts perpetrated against victims in a ‘helpless state’, such as being intoxicated. So it's broader but much of what it captures still falls under the term rape in other countries' legislation too. New crimes weren't invented, they were simply shifted from the sexual assault column. Plus it keeps on rising, a decade after the redefinition.

But here's the thing. We can ignore the redefinition and the associated noise, and instead look at trends before 2005 as well as at aggravated rape (Grov våldtäkt) whose frequency is not affected by changing definitions. We can also just see what the crime reports tell us. Let's do that.

Here's the facts:

- Studies in 1996 and again in 2005 showed that foreign-born individuals were 4.7 times more likely to commit a crime of rape and 3.7 times more likely to commit the crime of murder.

- Multiplying each group's proportion of suspects by their absolute size gives us the absolute amount of those suspected of "Rape" for each group. Doing that we find that "Swedes" made up 43.5% of "Rape" suspects, "Half-Swedes" made up 14.6% of "Rape" suspects, and "Foreigners" made up 42% of "Rape" suspects. These are approximations.

- 2005's info is less informative as Sweden stopped publishing info on ethnicity but had this to say in a their report: "Immigrants’ risk of being registered for crime has not changed in any pronounced way since the previous study conducted by the National Council, which related to the situation at the end of the 1980s"

- Before the change to the penal code in 2005, rapes were rising rapidly. "The number of consummated rapes reported to the police has increased dramatically, more than tripling over the course of the past two decades. A total of 2,261 consummated rapes were reported to the police in the year 2004. It is not possible to exclude the possibility that the dramatic increase in reported rape offences may at least to some extent be the result of an increase in the propensity to report these crimes to the police. On the whole, however, no support was found for interpretations suggesting that this factor, even taken in combination with the effects of the legislative change referred to above, would be sufficient to explain any major part of the increase in the number of reported rapes. Thus it has not been established, but it does not appear unlikely, that the number of rapes committed has in fact increased."

- "Since 1990, the number of reported cases has increased by an average 400 per year. According to the National Council for Crime Prevention (Brå), people’s propensity to report has probably increased during this period, but a reasonable assumption is that actual violence against women in close relationships also increased in the 1990s."

- A 1996 BRA (Swedish Criminal statistics) study found that "there any indication that immigrants in Sweden are discriminated in the courts. Immigrant overrepresentation in registered crime is almost certainly real...nor is it caused by any generally lower social economic status (calculated as per SEI code) in Sweden."

- Swedish National Council for Crime Prevention determined that between 1985 and 1989 individuals born in Iraq, North Africa (Algeria, Libya, Morocco and Tunisia),Africa (excluding Uganda and the North African countries), other Middle East (Jordan, Palestine, Syria), Iran and Eastern Europe (Romania, Bulgaria) were convicted of rape at rates 20, 23, 17, 9, 10 and 18 greater than individuals born in Sweden respectively."

- Eurostat use the ICCS (international classification of crime for statistical purposes) method which standardises types of crimes so that they mean the same thing in different countries. Their stats show rape in Sweden is rising both before and after 2005.

- Audited sentences for rape from 2009 shows an over-representation by as many as 48 percent of the rapists were born abroad. (This represents an increase compared data from 2005, which could point to the phenomenon is growing.) Within the category of aggravated rape, the figure was as much as 64 percent.

- Professor Sten Levander, a member of BRÅ:s scientific board, in an interview with tabloid Aftonbladet said "That the number of reported rapes has increased so significantly in a short time can not be explained by regulatory changes and increased willingness to report the crime. Scientists believe that certain types of rape may indeed have become more common."

So, yes. Sweden's real rape-rate is rising and, yes, migrants are disproportionately responsible. Often shockingly so.

Sources:

https://www.pdf-archive.com/2011/05/08/br-1996-2-invandrares... https://www.jstor.org/stable/1147632?seq=2#page_scan_tab_con... https://www.bra.se/download/18.cba82f7130f475a2f1800025850/1... https://www.bra.se/download/18.779f51ff14b839896441cec/14278... https://www.bra.se/download/18.cba82f7130f475a2f1800010674/1... https://www.bra.se/download/18.12305534131e173a7f180001557/1... https://unstats.un.org/unsd/statcom/doc15/BG-ICCS-UNODC.pdf http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/web/products-datasets/-/crim_of... https://www.bra.se/download/18.31d7fffa1504bbffea0abf49/1450... http://www.bra.se/download/18.22a7170813a0d141d2180007794/20... http://www.pdf-archive.com/2011/05/08/br-1996-2-invandrares-... https://www.diva-portal.org/smash/get/diva2:526664/FULLTEXT0...

Re: Facts about migration and crime in Sweden

#209
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you for the actual statistics; can you provide a source for the legislative change? I found sources for 2005 and 2008 changes, but not one for 2013. There's also one particular thing that doesn't pass the smell test for me from your German article: "Less than 1 percent of the total crimes committed by refugees are sex crimes, going against rumours spread on social media that these have become more common with t…

>>"Less than 1 percent of the total crimes committed by refugees are sex crimes" That seems to mean something different than "less than 1 percent of total sex crimes are committed by refugees".

The original German article quoting the actual internal police paper is very clear that out of the "very low six digit figure" of total crimes committed by refugees, less than 1% of those "refugee crimes" were sex crimes.

It does not in any way state the what chunk out of the total sex crimes were committed by refugees, indeed.

Re: Facts about migration and crime in Sweden

#210
post #34
post #23

According to the official statistics on The Swedish Crime Survey, the sexual violence rate in Sweden remained about the same between 2005 and 2014. The refugee crisis began around 2014, and since then, the rates for sexual violence went down in 2015[1] something you never see mentioned on certain parts of the internet. 2016 saw an increase in crimes, but still less than pre-immigration levels in 2014. Also the Swedis…

Thank you for the actual statistics; can you provide a source for the legislative change? I found sources for 2005 and 2008 changes, but not one for 2013. There's also one particular thing that doesn't pass the smell test for me from your German article: "Less than 1 percent of the total crimes committed by refugees are sex crimes, going against rumours spread on social media that these have become more common with t…

How about you stop trying to interpret articles that try to interpret reports and instead go straight to the source aka the reports?

Here's the BKA report on "Crime in the context of migrant influx 1st Quarter of 2016": https://www.bmi.bund.de/SharedDocs/Downloads/EN/Themen/Siche...

That report also puts the number of "sexual assaults", out of all the crimes committed by migrants, at 1.10%.

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