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Alphabet's Waymo Alleges Uber Stole Self-Driving Secrets

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Re: Alphabet's Waymo Alleges Uber Stole Self-Driving Secrets

#241

Post by valleyer »

QuercusMax wrote: post #188
giis wrote: post #97

Interesting questions for google employees: Does Google force you to use specific version of OS? Do they have pre-installed software? Is it not-okay to format and install any OS you want? I work in startups, they provide only laptops and doesnt care about OS or software. There is no mandatory software requirement from company side.

For eng workstations, virtually all are Goobuntu unless you have a reallllly good reason (e.g. CAD software for mech e's, or work on Windows Chrome). For laptops, they're essentially just used as a dumb web terminal + ssh. You can get mac, goobuntu, or maybe even Windows. Since you aren't allowed to have source code on laptops (except certain special exceptions), it's not as big of a concern.

You aren't allowed to have source on your laptop? How do you edit it? Through some web editor? Serious question!

Re: Alphabet's Waymo Alleges Uber Stole Self-Driving Secrets

#242

Post by kajecounterhack »

ocdtrekkie wrote: post #224
Harimwakairi wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having access to code and data you don't technically "need" is often how people learn new skills and advance their careers without leaving the company. It's an important part of the culture.

Why is "the culture" always used in Silicon Valley to justify incredibly bad decisions?

Again, "bad" is your opinion. People aren't machines: how much trust you place in them affects your relationship with them. Culture is about your team's interconnected relationships.

For example: Smaller companies often have the luxury of more trust / transparency. As companies such as Google grow, they have to resort to things like sending internal notice of big announcements very close to when the actual announcements come out (because leakers). If you have 10 people, you can usually trust the whole team.

Google tries very hard to allow as much transparency and openness as is allowable for its size. It fosters a culture of trust. Logging access rather than restricting it is one of those culture moves. It makes employees feel trusted, and puts responsibility on them to behave ethically. When they don't, the other end is that Google can still take legal action.

Culture isn't a fake floofy thing, it's real.

Re: Alphabet's Waymo Alleges Uber Stole Self-Driving Secrets

#243

Post by UncleMeat »

valleyer wrote: post #241
QuercusMax wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For eng workstations, virtually all are Goobuntu unless you have a reallllly good reason (e.g. CAD software for mech e's, or work on Windows Chrome). For laptops, they're essentially just used as a dumb web terminal + ssh. You can get mac, goobuntu, or maybe even Windows. Since you aren't allowed to have source code on laptops (except certain special exceptions), it's not as big of a concern.

You aren't allowed to have source on your laptop? How do you edit it? Through some web editor? Serious question!

SSH or a web editor.

Re: Alphabet's Waymo Alleges Uber Stole Self-Driving Secrets

#245

Post by argonaut »

snarf wrote: post #221
ehsankia wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think I've ever seen Google go in the offensive like this, so this must be pretty serious.

I think Alphabet probably views Waymo as their next big thing, and Waymo appears to have a sizable lead over everyone else in the self driving space which they want to protect. Remember, Alphabet is a major investor in Uber through Google Ventures, and their stake is likely worth billions. They wouldn't pursue this unless Waymo was of critical importance to them.

I get that a lot of people on HN are highly skeptical, but Google Ventures claims to be completely firewalled from Google corporate (this issue is only made more confusing by the fact that Google Capital is not firewalled, and by the fact that Google corporate itself also invests in companies).

I do believe them: many media firms have the same set up between the journalism and advertising departments.

Re: Alphabet's Waymo Alleges Uber Stole Self-Driving Secrets

#246

Post by valleyer »

UncleMeat wrote: post #243
valleyer wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You aren't allowed to have source on your laptop? How do you edit it? Through some web editor? Serious question!

SSH or a web editor.

That sounds awful! Is that just a "laptop" rule (i.e. are "desktops" exempt)?

Re: Alphabet's Waymo Alleges Uber Stole Self-Driving Secrets

#247

Post by argonaut »

neom wrote: post #5
donjh wrote: post #2

And Google Ventures is an Uber investor... so Google is effectively suing one of their own portfolio companies.

GV is generally very arms length of google itself, in fact when I've pitched them they specifically say as much. They'll make investments that are supportive to the google mission generally, and sometimes that investment is a hedge I would imagine.

To add on to this, the existence of other Google investing arms makes me more believing of the claim that Google Ventures is firewalled from Google corporate; it seems Google needs Google Capital (and Google corp which also directly invests sometimes) because they can't tell Google Ventures to invest in certain companies even if they would like to for strategic reasons.

Re: Alphabet's Waymo Alleges Uber Stole Self-Driving Secrets

#248

Post by inlined »

deejaybog wrote: post #161
tajen wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does Google build such forsenics? Do they have spyware monitoring all their company laptops?

Even if they do, it is very unlikely they were built with provable nonrepudiation requirements. From personal experience designing the security of a PKI CA that passed gov security certifications, the audit subsystem is the most challenging part to do right. Could probably consult for the defense in tearing down the evidence :)

I'll accept that it's hard, but why do you think Google didn't do it right?

Re: Alphabet's Waymo Alleges Uber Stole Self-Driving Secrets

#249

Post by unityByFreedom »

curun1r wrote: post #236
danielweber wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many many years ago, I was at a software company, and a competitor popped up making very similar software. They made a presentation of their software at a conference, and had a slide showing a screenshot. Our typos were clearly visible. Fun times, fun times. We got a few people fired, but that was about it.

I used to work at a small company that made a SaaS product for a niche HR function. One of our largest customers, a bank whose ATMs you likely see every day if you're in the US, decided to drop our service in favor of a solution built in-house. We were disappointed, but had to let them go. Then, about 2 years after they'd canceled, our support department got a strange email from a user that was having problems. At fi…

> When we called them on it, they basically threatened to use lawyers to put us out of business if we pursued the issue, so I guess our management decided to drop it. We did make them change the support email and phone number.

This is why we can't have nice things. Darned lawyers. Can't live with them, can't live without them

Re: Alphabet's Waymo Alleges Uber Stole Self-Driving Secrets

#250

Post by jlebrech »

curun1r wrote: post #236
danielweber wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many many years ago, I was at a software company, and a competitor popped up making very similar software. They made a presentation of their software at a conference, and had a slide showing a screenshot. Our typos were clearly visible. Fun times, fun times. We got a few people fired, but that was about it.

I used to work at a small company that made a SaaS product for a niche HR function. One of our largest customers, a bank whose ATMs you likely see every day if you're in the US, decided to drop our service in favor of a solution built in-house. We were disappointed, but had to let them go. Then, about 2 years after they'd canceled, our support department got a strange email from a user that was having problems. At fi…

you could have put their ip in a firewall or rate limited their access to mess with them.
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