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Kim Jong-Nam Was Killed by VX Nerve Agent, Malaysians Say

nytimes.com

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Re: Kim Jong-Nam Was Killed by VX Nerve Agent, Malaysians Say

#61

Post by mc32 »

L_226 wrote: post #41
M_Grey wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh yeah... like using Polonium to kill Litvinenko... this is all about sending a message.

Indeed, and the message was "I'm insecure about my position".

Someone insecure who does not retaliate is of little concern. Someone who can retaliate or do away with people in remote places using extreme methods is more about saying, "don't cross me or I will get you" and insecurity is kind of irrelevant at that point. It's more I don't want to get on this woman/man's bad side.

I'm also not sure it's plain insecurity. I'm sure there are people not too far removed from him who if they could, would try to get to him -however, he goes to extreme measures to ensure he neutralizes possible threats when identified --including relatives and "old hands".

Although, being such a tyrant (insecure as he might be) why doesn't anyone of the people at his core who live in fear for themselves and everyone else just go on a final mission against him? It's not like he's the only one armed --plus he'd have to remain awake 24x7.

Re: Kim Jong-Nam Was Killed by VX Nerve Agent, Malaysians Say

#62

Post by M_Grey »

tlow wrote: post #53
franciskim wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Look at the number of Wikipedia links, it's not like tlow is the only person on earth that knows about this.

Thank you. I am merely a curious character who happens to read; occasionally on esoteric matters.

I'm glad to discover that I'm not alone in that, "Hmmm, I wonder if my internet history has put me on all of the lists yet?" reading pattern. On Wikipedia especially, the fun is opening an endlessly nesting series of related topics. Sometimes that can get... weird.

Re: Kim Jong-Nam Was Killed by VX Nerve Agent, Malaysians Say

#63

Post by mendelk »

jszymborski wrote: post #56
crdb wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> While addressing a spellbound audience of young officers, he would sometimes partially immerse one finger in a small beaker of pure VX for a few seconds. Without interrupting his lecture, he would then amble to a nearby sink and casually wash the deadly chemical from his finger. The teaching point was that VX could not enter the skin instantaneously, and that accidental exposure of a small area would not be harmful…

I'm grateful for the edification, but dude, that's a very specific reference from a >$100 (text?)book on a very particular subject. I'm afraid to ask about your background :P

Welcome to HN :)

It's one of the reasons I leave this site every day feeling wonderfully inadequate :)

Re: Kim Jong-Nam Was Killed by VX Nerve Agent, Malaysians Say

#64

Post by hkmurakami »

jbenz wrote: post #22

The Rock came out when I was 13 so needless to say, I'm a big fan. I absolutely thought VX Nerve Agent was fictional until today.

I'm in exactly the same boat as you and thought VX was fictional until about 10 years later when a mainstream media article made a reference to it.

Re: Kim Jong-Nam Was Killed by VX Nerve Agent, Malaysians Say

#65

Post by M_Grey »

mc32 wrote: post #61
L_226 wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed, and the message was "I'm insecure about my position".

Someone insecure who does not retaliate is of little concern. Someone who can retaliate or do away with people in remote places using extreme methods is more about saying, "don't cross me or I will get you" and insecurity is kind of irrelevant at that point. It's more I don't want to get on this woman/man's bad side. I'm also not sure it's plain insecurity. I'm sure there are people not too far removed from him who i…

It's probably a rare person who is sane, intelligent, capable of detailed planning, and willing to potentially have a really nasty and protracted death. It seems to me that far more often you have people who are deluded in some way and don't perceive risk (bad planners, may not be particularly mentally fit), rare cases of extremely violent mental illness (not sane, bad planners), the highly motivated fanatic (good planner, sane, tends not to be the most intelligent).

You need a lot of elements to come together to murder someone who is well protected and expects to be the target of violence, while having a state to protect them. The scary thing is that of course, sometimes, this does happen; when it does there is very very little that can be done to stop it, short of you aforementioned 24x7 sleeping cycle.

Re: Kim Jong-Nam Was Killed by VX Nerve Agent, Malaysians Say

#67

Post by molmalo »

asdz wrote: post #36
gwern wrote: post #2

Does VX explain how the two women survived despite using bare hands to administer an apparently skin-absorbable poison? It has binary agent formulations, so each women could have one half on her hand and avoid any contamination by swiping very fast.

I'm wondering, the first one would be safe for sure, but how would the second one that apply it be safe? The chemical would have react by the time she apply it right? And since she (either the Indonesian / Vietnamese) got the reacted chemical, wouldn't she die too?

Exactly what I was wondering after reading the article... Something seems to be wrong or incomplete.

Re: Kim Jong-Nam Was Killed by VX Nerve Agent, Malaysians Say

#68

Post by NamTaf »

ransom1538 wrote: post #47
NamTaf wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because slicing someone's head off requires you to be there, next to them, as it happens. You're standing next to the body as it gargles and bleeds everywhere and security will descend on you in a big way. Wiping someone's face then bailing is something that the target will shrug off as 'some crazy' until some time later it kills them. This buys you time to get out of the place before anyone realises the full extent…

Oh I always imagine North Korea had the assassins family chained up. WTF does it matter if they get back?

They're still an expensive and relatively difficult asset to replace. It's not like they're disposable front-line infantry. Assassins presumably have a fair amount of training. If you lose the assassin that's another expense you have to cover. Not to mention the indoctrination required to have someone perform this overseas and come back again.

Re: Kim Jong-Nam Was Killed by VX Nerve Agent, Malaysians Say

#69

Post by psandersen »

M_Grey wrote: post #62
tlow wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you. I am merely a curious character who happens to read; occasionally on esoteric matters.

I'm glad to discover that I'm not alone in that, "Hmmm, I wonder if my internet history has put me on all of the lists yet?" reading pattern. On Wikipedia especially, the fun is opening an endlessly nesting series of related topics. Sometimes that can get... weird.

Same here, it is unfortunate that we have to be worried about appearing on lists just for having a curious mind.

Re: Kim Jong-Nam Was Killed by VX Nerve Agent, Malaysians Say

#70

Post by _wp3r »

tlow wrote: post #13

If we are talking about V-Series Agents, we might as well talk about the secret Soviet Program to develop additional V-series compounds[1] that would be undetectable by the west. It is important to note that there are many vectors of entry for a V-series agent, and in this case, evidence points to an atomized version, as opposed to the dermal administration which is more common among this class. An atomized version t…

It is worth mentioning that a powder form of nerve agents was also created during the time that these things were the fad. Mirzayanov covered the functionality of these binary powder based chems with 5-7x efficacy over VX. It would be highly unlikely for NK have functional quantities of these though.

Edit: Also it would be possible to use a non-military Acetylcholinesterase inhibitor for this attack.

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