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Kim Jong-Nam Was Killed by VX Nerve Agent, Malaysians Say

nytimes.com

11–20 of 187 posts

Re: Kim Jong-Nam Was Killed by VX Nerve Agent, Malaysians Say

#11
post #2

Does VX explain how the two women survived despite using bare hands to administer an apparently skin-absorbable poison? It has binary agent formulations, so each women could have one half on her hand and avoid any contamination by swiping very fast.

It could have been an accident that they survived. In this case the assassins dying along with the victim is a feature, not a bug.

Re: Kim Jong-Nam Was Killed by VX Nerve Agent, Malaysians Say

#12
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But this guy was an enemy of North Korea. That's why he was assassinated...

He was Un's half brother. First line of the article.

Yeah, and has been living in exile since before Kim Jong-Il died.

Re: Kim Jong-Nam Was Killed by VX Nerve Agent, Malaysians Say

#13
If we are talking about V-Series Agents, we might as well talk about the secret Soviet Program to develop additional V-series compounds[1] that would be undetectable by the west. It is important to note that there are many vectors of entry for a V-series agent, and in this case, evidence points to an atomized version, as opposed to the dermal administration which is more common among this class. An atomized version targeting the respiratory system and not the dermal would explain why two women attempting to aid "with bare hands" would not have been harmed.

Beyond VX, there exist a plethora of other analogous chemicals, namely the G-Series[2], VE[3], VG[4], VM[5], VR[6] and VP[7]. A notable commonality among these compounds is that very little is known about their effects outside of military research (ie not shared).

Given the military nature of these compounds, there is a reason to believe that this was a military assassination.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Novichok_agent

[2] Sarin is a G-series agent https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarin

[3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VE_(nerve_agent)

[4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VG_(nerve_agent)

[5] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VM_(nerve_agent)

[6] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VR_(nerve_agent)

[7] https://books.google.com/books?id=DQw2hVGe0aMC&lpg=PA72&ots=...

Re: Kim Jong-Nam Was Killed by VX Nerve Agent, Malaysians Say

#14
post #2

Does VX explain how the two women survived despite using bare hands to administer an apparently skin-absorbable poison? It has binary agent formulations, so each women could have one half on her hand and avoid any contamination by swiping very fast.

Please see my comment with regard to respiratory versus dermal administration. Further almost all research with regards to these agents has been military and thus is not widely shared or known. Even further, the Soviets spent more than 30 years developing 3rd generation nerve agents that would be undetectable by NATO.[1] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Novichok_agent

Re: Kim Jong-Nam Was Killed by VX Nerve Agent, Malaysians Say

#15

I disapprove of assassination but I've got to admit this one scores 10/10 for sheer style.

Certainly the attempt to kill Castro, of all people, with an exploding cigar should rank higher. Just imagine how that CIA brain storming went:

A: "We're tasked with killing Castro. Again. Any ideas? Anything? Nothing is stupid! Castro! Go!

B: "Cigars"

C: "Boom!"

A: "I see we're in mind-melt here. No wonder the western world trusts us with their lives during these troubling times"

If you insist on actually successful assassinations, and score it on cruelty as well, using Polonium should win. The victim doesn't only die a miserable death. It takes two weeks during which they can still give interviews, know they're going to die, and even knows exactly who did it.

Re: Kim Jong-Nam Was Killed by VX Nerve Agent, Malaysians Say

#16
post #2

Does VX explain how the two women survived despite using bare hands to administer an apparently skin-absorbable poison? It has binary agent formulations, so each women could have one half on her hand and avoid any contamination by swiping very fast.

They likely took the antidotes that are available for VX right before, chemical-resistant gloves, applied the VX in non-binary form, then washed their hands in bleach and washed it off with water.

Re: Kim Jong-Nam Was Killed by VX Nerve Agent, Malaysians Say

#17
Interesting tid-bit from Wikipedia [1]

In fiscal year 2008, the US Department of Defense released a study finding that the U.S. had dumped at least 124 tons of VX into the Atlantic Ocean off the coasts of New York/New Jersey and Florida, between 1969 and 1970. This material consisted of nearly 22,000 M55 rockets, 19 bulk containers holding 1,400 pounds (640 kg) each, and one M23 chemical landmine. [25]

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VX_(nerve_agent)#US_VX_stockpi...

Re: Kim Jong-Nam Was Killed by VX Nerve Agent, Malaysians Say

#18
post #2

Does VX explain how the two women survived despite using bare hands to administer an apparently skin-absorbable poison? It has binary agent formulations, so each women could have one half on her hand and avoid any contamination by swiping very fast.

They likely took the antidotes that are available for VX right before, chemical-resistant gloves, applied the VX in non-binary form, then washed their hands in bleach and washed it off with water.

No. This is wrong. The far better approach would be "Pharmacologic prophylaxis against nerve agent poisoning." [1] A prophylaxis agent is NOT an antidote.

[1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15792266

Re: Kim Jong-Nam Was Killed by VX Nerve Agent, Malaysians Say

#19
I wonder if they used this binary combination: O-Ethyl O-2-diisopropylaminoethyl methylphosphonite and sulfur [0][1]. Not sure if that would be consistent with one being in a spray bottle.

[0] http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/831901-overview

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QL_(chemical)

Re: Kim Jong-Nam Was Killed by VX Nerve Agent, Malaysians Say

#20
post #17

Interesting tid-bit from Wikipedia [1] In fiscal year 2008, the US Department of Defense released a study finding that the U.S. had dumped at least 124 tons of VX into the Atlantic Ocean off the coasts of New York/New Jersey and Florida, between 1969 and 1970. This material consisted of nearly 22,000 M55 rockets, 19 bulk containers holding 1,400 pounds (640 kg) each, and one M23 chemical landmine. [25] [1] https://en…

Yep. And who knows what the affects of that were. But I do not agree with the claim that this is interesting in this context as it seems irrelevant to the discussion.
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