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Alphabet's Waymo Alleges Uber Stole Self-Driving Secrets

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Re: Alphabet's Waymo Alleges Uber Stole Self-Driving Secrets

#141
post #35

There's something very wrong in the world when the people who invent things aren't the main beneficiary of their own inventions. Edit: A guy downloads 9.7GB of other people's work, walks off with it, and sells it. Flushing years of work from hundreds of engineers down the toilet. You down voters really support that? Amazing.

Otto was a YC company so there's your answer. People condone a lot of awful if they 1) make money off it; 2) Have some emotional connection to it

Re: Alphabet's Waymo Alleges Uber Stole Self-Driving Secrets

#142

I had an interview there where the manager asked me to leave my laptop behind and go for a walk. I was hesitant after hearing stories of Uber conducting electronic espionage against its competitors. They could easily bypass Macbook security with a USB device (I had heard of that on HN too) so I was very nervous to leave my laptop behind and noted its exact orientation and position on the table. Sure enough when I ret…

1. Why bring your own laptop to an interview?

2. Isn't this scenario incredibly suspicious?

Re: Alphabet's Waymo Alleges Uber Stole Self-Driving Secrets

#143
post #9

From another source to provide some colour: > According to a lawsuit filed today in federal court in California, Waymo accuses Anthony Levandowski, an engineer who left Google to found Otto and now serves as a top ranking Uber executive, stole 14,000 highly confidential documents from Google before departing to start his own company. Among the documents were schematics of a circuit board and details about radar and L…

Yea that's incredibly bad if that's what that guy did.. in general for EE designs, the schematic/layouts are not that hard to deduce how you would do it if you are in contact with the company that makes the LIDAR device (the unique and difficult part -- basically just need to ask them, like "yo, how roughly should I interface with this thing and whats your recommendation on a number of the components.. and can you gi…

He is a great fit as an Uber executive... another greedy pig!

This one broke many laws and needs to go to jail!

Re: Alphabet's Waymo Alleges Uber Stole Self-Driving Secrets

#144
post #91

From another source to provide some colour: > According to a lawsuit filed today in federal court in California, Waymo accuses Anthony Levandowski, an engineer who left Google to found Otto and now serves as a top ranking Uber executive, stole 14,000 highly confidential documents from Google before departing to start his own company. Among the documents were schematics of a circuit board and details about radar and L…

It sounds worse when you consider the potential for treble damages due to having knowledge of the infringement. Uber's negotiating position is doubly weakened by the fact that they are dealing with a reputation crisis at the same time as this claim has been brought forward. If Google has the information they claim they do, they have persuasive arguments to anchor their damages calculations on the basis of Otto's acqu…

I don't think I've ever seen Google go in the offensive like this, so this must be pretty serious.

Re: Alphabet's Waymo Alleges Uber Stole Self-Driving Secrets

#145
> Recently, we received an unexpected email. One of our suppliers specializing in LiDAR components sent us an attachment (apparently inadvertently) of machine drawings of what was purported to be Uber’s LiDAR circuit board — except its design bore a striking resemblance to Waymo’s unique LiDAR design.

Doesn't sound plausible. At a minimum, this would have to be the "dumbed down" version of how they uncovered this.

Re: Alphabet's Waymo Alleges Uber Stole Self-Driving Secrets

#146

So a junior engineer took the files, left Waymo to join Uber and tried to pass off the files? Correction. So he's not really a junior engineer. But how can he not think that everything he access on the Google's network is monitored?

We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13718795 and marked it off-topic.

Re: Alphabet's Waymo Alleges Uber Stole Self-Driving Secrets

#147
Interesting. I vividly remember a commenter here on a thread about Uber's acquisition of Otto. The user said based on the timeline and filings, it seemed like Otto hadn't really accomplished anything yet, and was probably founded purely to be acquired by Uber. I wonder if there's even more here...

Re: Alphabet's Waymo Alleges Uber Stole Self-Driving Secrets

#148
post #75
post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems criminal. I remember an engineer from goldman sachs went to prison for doing something similar.

It also seems like the least interesting thing to steal. The hard part is probably the software and access to real world driving data. It is like holding up a bank and walking out with just the coins. The risk reward profile is terrible.

I thought waymo's lidar sensors were much, much cheaper than other sensors: https://arstechnica.com/cars/2017/01/googles-waymo-invests-i...

We're talking about reducing a ~$25000 part to ~$2500.

Re: Alphabet's Waymo Alleges Uber Stole Self-Driving Secrets

#149
post #59
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yea that's incredibly bad if that's what that guy did.. in general for EE designs, the schematic/layouts are not that hard to deduce how you would do it if you are in contact with the company that makes the LIDAR device (the unique and difficult part -- basically just need to ask them, like "yo, how roughly should I interface with this thing and whats your recommendation on a number of the components.. and can you gi…

It seems criminal. I remember an engineer from goldman sachs went to prison for doing something similar.

That would be Sergey Aleynikov [0]. I'd recommend reading Flash Boys by Michael Lewis [1], who covers this story in detail. Sergey's case seems much more nuanced, and if I remember, Lewis takes his side on a number of issues.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sergey_Aleynikov [1] https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/24724602-flash-boys

Re: Alphabet's Waymo Alleges Uber Stole Self-Driving Secrets

#150
post #75
post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems criminal. I remember an engineer from goldman sachs went to prison for doing something similar.

It also seems like the least interesting thing to steal. The hard part is probably the software and access to real world driving data. It is like holding up a bank and walking out with just the coins. The risk reward profile is terrible.

I imagine there are more software people capable of programming their way through the problem than electrical engineers that can work their way through it.

An electrical engineer is also going to see the Uber name and expect Valley idiocy, while being a being a secondary concern for not being softwary enough.

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