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Alphabet's Waymo Alleges Uber Stole Self-Driving Secrets

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Re: Alphabet's Waymo Alleges Uber Stole Self-Driving Secrets

#111
post #89
post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not so much an interface board as a whole new tested design for a LIDAR unit, including a unique patented optics setup and laser driver circuit, according to the complaint. Also testing, manufacturing, and characterization procedures and results and information on suppliers for the parts required. The PCB was just the component whose accidental disclosure lead them to conclude that Uber and Otto were using the stolen…

Interesting. Is the specific Lidar unit really that big a differentiator? I understand they aren't cheap or simple, but it seems odd that each self driving car company would want to design their own. I would guess you would rather have some healthy ecosystem of suppliers...Velodyne, etc.

> it seems odd that each self driving car company would want to design their own

They don't want to do this, so, if they do, it's because they had to do this.

Practically all of the current sensor suites are expensive, bulky, and power hungry. If you want them on lots of cars, you need to reduce all 3 of those characteristics dramatically.

Re: Alphabet's Waymo Alleges Uber Stole Self-Driving Secrets

#113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's kind amazing that Google keeps reiterating how their incredible security protects your data, and that even employees are extremely carefully monitored. Yet their confidential trade secrets were taken by a dude who seemingly didn't have access to them as part of his job (since he had to go install the software) and a portable hard drive. The post also says he talked about replicating their technology at a competi…

There's a huge difference between security of user data and security of company secrets. Having access to the latter is not unreasonable; access to the former should be heavily restricted and closely monitored.

And it is.

Re: Alphabet's Waymo Alleges Uber Stole Self-Driving Secrets

#114

I had an interview there where the manager asked me to leave my laptop behind and go for a walk. I was hesitant after hearing stories of Uber conducting electronic espionage against its competitors. They could easily bypass Macbook security with a USB device (I had heard of that on HN too) so I was very nervous to leave my laptop behind and noted its exact orientation and position on the table. Sure enough when I ret…

> They could easily bypass Macbook security with a USB device Isn't this only possible if the laptop is unlocked?

It's not possible unless you have zero-days against the USB drivers or firmware on your laptop, in which case being logged in or not doesn't really matter.

Re: Alphabet's Waymo Alleges Uber Stole Self-Driving Secrets

#115
post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doesn't sound like anyone stole anything. Waymo/Google still had the documents, and copying isn't theft. Right?

In fact, copying can be theft.

Copying illicit data constitutes copyright infringement at its best, or industrial espionage at its worst.

Theft is a different type of crime involving actual things.

Re: Alphabet's Waymo Alleges Uber Stole Self-Driving Secrets

#116
post #73

From another source to provide some colour: > According to a lawsuit filed today in federal court in California, Waymo accuses Anthony Levandowski, an engineer who left Google to found Otto and now serves as a top ranking Uber executive, stole 14,000 highly confidential documents from Google before departing to start his own company. Among the documents were schematics of a circuit board and details about radar and L…

And this "over 14,000 highly confidential and proprietary design files for Waymo’s various hardware systems" is what, an engineering repo? (Edit: My money's on repo. It says 'searched for and installed specialized software', I'm translating that as 'installed git.') Or did he just take a copy of his mailbox? Sounds like a rookie move to be downloading this stuff on his work laptop either way.

I also took 'searched for an installed specialized software' to mean 'downloaded the client for Google's repo server from their internal IT site'.

Re: Alphabet's Waymo Alleges Uber Stole Self-Driving Secrets

#118

I had an interview there where the manager asked me to leave my laptop behind and go for a walk. I was hesitant after hearing stories of Uber conducting electronic espionage against its competitors. They could easily bypass Macbook security with a USB device (I had heard of that on HN too) so I was very nervous to leave my laptop behind and noted its exact orientation and position on the table. Sure enough when I ret…

This smells like FUD.

> They could have simply moved things on the desk.

Is there any evidence suggesting something else happened?

Re: Alphabet's Waymo Alleges Uber Stole Self-Driving Secrets

#119
post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In fact, copying can be theft.

Copying illicit data constitutes copyright infringement at its best, or industrial espionage at its worst. Theft is a different type of crime involving actual things.

Exactly! Btw, the specific term of art for "actual things" that are subject to theft is "rivalrous" (adj): a good whose consumption by one consumer prevents simultaneous consumption by other consumers.

You can commit theft of a rivalrous good, like an apple or a computer. You cannot, however, do the same to a file or a song or an idea. I wish more people understood this difference. Society would be better for it.

Re: Alphabet's Waymo Alleges Uber Stole Self-Driving Secrets

#120

So a junior engineer took the files, left Waymo to join Uber and tried to pass off the files? Correction. So he's not really a junior engineer. But how can he not think that everything he access on the Google's network is monitored?

"now serves as a top ranking Uber executive"
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