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Alphabet's Waymo Alleges Uber Stole Self-Driving Secrets

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Re: Alphabet's Waymo Alleges Uber Stole Self-Driving Secrets

#91

Post by ABCLAW »

chollida1 wrote: post #4

From another source to provide some colour: > According to a lawsuit filed today in federal court in California, Waymo accuses Anthony Levandowski, an engineer who left Google to found Otto and now serves as a top ranking Uber executive, stole 14,000 highly confidential documents from Google before departing to start his own company. Among the documents were schematics of a circuit board and details about radar and L…

It sounds worse when you consider the potential for treble damages due to having knowledge of the infringement. Uber's negotiating position is doubly weakened by the fact that they are dealing with a reputation crisis at the same time as this claim has been brought forward.

If Google has the information they claim they do, they have persuasive arguments to anchor their damages calculations on the basis of Otto's acquisition value. Times three.

This is a sword of Damocles hanging above Uber.

Re: Alphabet's Waymo Alleges Uber Stole Self-Driving Secrets

#92

Post by kyleschiller »

huangc10 wrote: post #74

> Alphabet’s venture capital arm, GV -- formerly known as Google Ventures -- is an early backer of Uber. Correct me if I am wrong, but does that mean Alphabet is suing itself since Alphabet owns both Google Venture, Waymo and has an investment in Uber...?

Yeah, that's wrong, being an investor in a company doesn't make you liable for their actions.

It does mean that Alphabet stands to lose something if they win the lawsuit, though whatever stake they do have in Uber is obviously negligible compared to WayMo itself.

Re: Alphabet's Waymo Alleges Uber Stole Self-Driving Secrets

#93

Post by ocdtrekkie »

startupdiscuss wrote: post #70
tajen wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does Google build such forsenics? Do they have spyware monitoring all their company laptops?

This was the noteworthy part for me as well. They had to know that he: 1. modified the software on his laptop 2. logged into an area he should not have had access to (this is probably standard) 3. attached an external drive (possible, but standard?) 4. and they got all this info after he deleted the drive, which means they either went in and found remaining data on the drive or else they captured the info in real tim…

This is all information a rudimentary desktop auditing tool can gather and store on a server. Most collect both hardware (which would include connected devices) and software inventory. Anyone SHOULD be auditing company PCs on a relatively regular basis. It wouldn't surprise me if Google was auditing much more frequently than the average and could catch something like this in the act.

Re: Alphabet's Waymo Alleges Uber Stole Self-Driving Secrets

#94

Post by rajathagasthya »

w00tw00tw00t wrote: post #69

I had an interview there where the manager asked me to leave my laptop behind and go for a walk. I was hesitant after hearing stories of Uber conducting electronic espionage against its competitors. They could easily bypass Macbook security with a USB device (I had heard of that on HN too) so I was very nervous to leave my laptop behind and noted its exact orientation and position on the table. Sure enough when I ret…

> They could easily bypass Macbook security with a USB device

Isn't this only possible if the laptop is unlocked?

Re: Alphabet's Waymo Alleges Uber Stole Self-Driving Secrets

#96

Post by joeblubaugh »

tyingq wrote: post #19
jplayer01 wrote: post #12

I always was incredibly surprised at how quickly Uber had working self-driving cars (with the required, highly specialized hardware). Guess this explains it.

Uber acquired Otto around 08/2016. I don't think this explains it.

The lawsuit from Waymo specifically calls out good LiDAR as a component that Uber had not successfully developed prior to acquiring Otto.

Re: Alphabet's Waymo Alleges Uber Stole Self-Driving Secrets

#97

Post by giis »

Interesting questions for google employees:

Does Google force you to use specific version of OS?

Do they have pre-installed software?

Is it not-okay to format and install any OS you want?

I work in startups, they provide only laptops and doesnt care about OS or software. There is no mandatory software requirement from company side.

Re: Alphabet's Waymo Alleges Uber Stole Self-Driving Secrets

#98

Post by tptacek »

gwern wrote: post #28
chollida1 wrote: post #4

From another source to provide some colour: > According to a lawsuit filed today in federal court in California, Waymo accuses Anthony Levandowski, an engineer who left Google to found Otto and now serves as a top ranking Uber executive, stole 14,000 highly confidential documents from Google before departing to start his own company. Among the documents were schematics of a circuit board and details about radar and L…

On the other hand, we know that public statements about lawsuits are always a pack of lies as everyone tries to look as wronged as possible: remember YC's bluster about the Cruise co-founder lawsuit, right before they had to settle for dozens/hundreds of millions? or remember the Oculus lawsuit where they alleged almost the exact same thing (Carmack stealing thousands of sooper-sekrit VR documents/files) and wound up…

Being ultimately required by circumstance to make a substantial payment to settle a lawsuit does not imply that the payer was lying, or even incorrect, in their defense.

Re: Alphabet's Waymo Alleges Uber Stole Self-Driving Secrets

#99

Post by gwern »

sillysaurus3 wrote: post #41
gwern wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the other hand, we know that public statements about lawsuits are always a pack of lies as everyone tries to look as wronged as possible: remember YC's bluster about the Cruise co-founder lawsuit, right before they had to settle for dozens/hundreds of millions? or remember the Oculus lawsuit where they alleged almost the exact same thing (Carmack stealing thousands of sooper-sekrit VR documents/files) and wound up…

remember YC's bluster about the Cruise co-founder lawsuit, right before they had to settle for dozens/hundreds of millions? Is this a guess? http://www.businessinsider.com/car-startup-cruise-settles-le... A representative for Guillory declined to discuss the settlement amount, but said the terms were "mutually agreeable." As part of the settlement, the parties have both agreed to dismiss their lawsuits.

It is an informed guess based on the fact that the settlement involved acknowledging, as the original YC paperwork said, he was a cofounder who owned 50% of a $1b exit. I haven't seen anyone in a hurry to leak claims that the settlement was for a trivial amount, nor did anyone at the time offer any good reasons for thinking that.
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