Show HN: Café Wifi Search • Hacker News Board

Re: Show HN: Café Wifi Search

#31

Post by j_s » Thu, Feb 23, 2017, 3:25 PM UTC

tekknolagi wrote: post #26

ValentineC wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Nowadays I tend to use Google searches instead, as Google pays contributors to keep details in their area updated (eg free 1TB Google Drive after a certain number of contributions). They've removed the 1TB/100GB benefit entirely [1], but they seem to have achieved their goal (of crowdsourcing updates). [1] https://www.google.com/local/guides/benefits/

Are you serious?? That's the only reason I am where I am. Was just about to reach that benefit :(

It appears to have dropped from 1TB for 2 years to 100GB for 1 year as of July 2016; I don't see the numbers on Google's documentation though.

What happens to my files after the free storage expires?

Your files will stay saved in your Google Drive. If you don't have any more storage space, you won't be able to add more files unless you remove files or buy storage.

https://support.google.com/local-guides/answer/6345112?hl=en

https://productforums.google.com/forum/#!topic/maps/d1a0jYa6...

Re: Show HN: Café Wifi Search

#32

Post by niklas_a » Thu, Feb 23, 2017, 3:28 PM UTC

aaronharnly wrote: post #19

niklas_a wrote: post #2

Can also recommend http://instabridge.com . The world's largest wifi sharing community. It's an app so works completely offline.

As noted by another comment in Swedish, that appears to be your project[1]. I don't see anything in the HN guidelines specifically[2], but I think it's customary to include a disclaimer when recommending one's own project. Just might bear that in mind for next time. [1] http://agevik.se/about [2] https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Yes! I'm the founder :)

Re: Show HN: Café Wifi Search

#33

Post by SyneRyder » Thu, Feb 23, 2017, 5:22 PM UTC

lucb1e wrote: post #30

SyneRyder wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It also contains opening hours, addresses, etc., which is all in OSM. I don't understand why people always try to start anew when the data is right there. It's a while since I played with OSM data for my own prototype, but I found most of the entries were 3 or 4 years out of date, and didn't include anything except a name and GPS co-ordinates. Some didn't even include a name. There was only one entry in my city wit…

Quality varies a lot, mostly from country to country (at least in western Europe, perhaps on other continents it's more regional). Whatever the quality though, it's a better start than nothing. Why would user data contributed to your application be any better than the user data contributed through OSM? It's a lot easier to edit an invalid property than have a completely blank map and start from scratch. Also, if proj…

> Why would user data contributed to your application be any better than the user data contributed through OSM?

I populated my data manually. I visited stores personally, talked to staff & store owners, measured GPS co-ordinates & WiFi speeds & counted power outlets in person. "Do Things That Don't Scale." Even as one person, I was able to create a dataset for my city that was 2.5x larger than OSM had, with better accuracy and more comprehensive attribute data.

I got the idea after reading about the Google Maps Ground Truth team - turned out their secret sauce was an army of paid staff that could be sent out on demand to specific locations that needed to be verified in person.

Re: Show HN: Café Wifi Search

#34

Post by tekknolagi » Thu, Feb 23, 2017, 5:31 PM UTC

j_s wrote: post #31

tekknolagi wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you serious?? That's the only reason I am where I am. Was just about to reach that benefit :(

It appears to have dropped from 1TB for 2 years to 100GB for 1 year as of July 2016; I don't see the numbers on Google's documentation though. What happens to my files after the free storage expires? Your files will stay saved in your Google Drive. If you don't have any more storage space, you won't be able to add more files unless you remove files or buy storage. https://support.google.com/local-guides/answer/634511…

Damn it. And I thought it was for life, too. Welp.

Re: Show HN: Café Wifi Search

#35

Post by JadeNB » Thu, Feb 23, 2017, 6:30 PM UTC

SyneRyder wrote: post #33

lucb1e wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quality varies a lot, mostly from country to country (at least in western Europe, perhaps on other continents it's more regional). Whatever the quality though, it's a better start than nothing. Why would user data contributed to your application be any better than the user data contributed through OSM? It's a lot easier to edit an invalid property than have a completely blank map and start from scratch. Also, if proj…

> Why would user data contributed to your application be any better than the user data contributed through OSM? I populated my data manually. I visited stores personally, talked to staff & store owners, measured GPS co-ordinates & WiFi speeds & counted power outlets in person. "Do Things That Don't Scale." Even as one person, I was able to create a dataset for my city that was 2.5x larger than OSM had, with better ac…

> I got the idea after reading about the Google Maps Ground Truth team - turned out their secret sauce was an army of paid staff that could be sent out on demand to specific locations that needed to be verified in person.

This seems to be the point, though. I don't think that your parent (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13714467) is advising not doing any work yourself, but rather combining your work with existing OSM data rather than starting from scratch. Even if you took a simple algorithm, whereby you preferred any data you had for a location over any OSM data for the same location, surely you would wind up with a richer dataset?

To put it another way, surely GMGT is useful only in combination with heavy use of existing data sets, not in place of them?

Re: Show HN: Café Wifi Search

#36

Post by jedberg » Thu, Feb 23, 2017, 6:49 PM UTC

To OP: You site shouldn't tell me I'm "searching too much" when I zoom the map. :)

I did a search for "Cupertino, CA" and it said there was nothing, so I started zooming in on Cupertino from the world map. After I got to the city level it blocked me.

Otherwise, it looks cool. I like the idea of using an app to get some real time data.

Re: Show HN: Café Wifi Search

#37

Post by rexreed » Thu, Feb 23, 2017, 6:55 PM UTC

If you're looking for feedback, then happy to provide. Do not take this the wrong way, but instead take this as valid feedback: I don't find this to be useful at all. The data is very limited, there are many other sources of info, the UI is clunky, and in general I think this problem has been solved many times. If you want the feedback, that's what I'm providing.

If you want kudos for the work done, then good job for putting something together.

Re: Show HN: Café Wifi Search

#38

Post by SyneRyder » Thu, Feb 23, 2017, 7:51 PM UTC

JadeNB wrote: post #35

SyneRyder wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why would user data contributed to your application be any better than the user data contributed through OSM? I populated my data manually. I visited stores personally, talked to staff & store owners, measured GPS co-ordinates & WiFi speeds & counted power outlets in person. "Do Things That Don't Scale." Even as one person, I was able to create a dataset for my city that was 2.5x larger than OSM had, with better ac…

> I got the idea after reading about the Google Maps Ground Truth team - turned out their secret sauce was an army of paid staff that could be sent out on demand to specific locations that needed to be verified in person. This seems to be the point, though. I don't think that your parent ( https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13714467 ) is advising not doing any work yourself, but rather combining your work with exis…

> Even if you took a simple algorithm, whereby you preferred any data you had for a location over any OSM data for the same location, surely you would wind up with a richer dataset?

That gives a messy, inaccurate dataset. It ends up including cafes that were closed years ago, places that aren't even cafes, or places several blocks from where they actually are. As a user, I don't think you want to walk out to a new cafe only to find that it doesn't exist. If you have to review the entire OSM dataset anyway, you may as well create your own.

I did make a few OpenStreetMap contributions years ago, but I see they've since been 'updated' to incorrect information by someone who doesn't even live in my city. It still has a lot of inaccurate and missing information in my area. At least for what I wanted to do (and for my city), OSM was a really bad dataset.

Re: Show HN: Café Wifi Search

#39

Post by lucb1e » Thu, Feb 23, 2017, 7:56 PM UTC

SyneRyder wrote: post #33

lucb1e wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quality varies a lot, mostly from country to country (at least in western Europe, perhaps on other continents it's more regional). Whatever the quality though, it's a better start than nothing. Why would user data contributed to your application be any better than the user data contributed through OSM? It's a lot easier to edit an invalid property than have a completely blank map and start from scratch. Also, if proj…

> Why would user data contributed to your application be any better than the user data contributed through OSM? I populated my data manually. I visited stores personally, talked to staff & store owners, measured GPS co-ordinates & WiFi speeds & counted power outlets in person. "Do Things That Don't Scale." Even as one person, I was able to create a dataset for my city that was 2.5x larger than OSM had, with better ac…

> Even as one person, I was able to create a dataset for my city that was 2.5x larger than OSM had

Then why in the world don't you contribute it to OSM so millions of users can benefit from it? (Or maybe you did, I don't know, but you seem to be pushing a separate platform here.)

Re: Show HN: Café Wifi Search

#40

Post by lucb1e » Thu, Feb 23, 2017, 8:04 PM UTC

SyneRyder wrote: post #38

JadeNB wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I got the idea after reading about the Google Maps Ground Truth team - turned out their secret sauce was an army of paid staff that could be sent out on demand to specific locations that needed to be verified in person. This seems to be the point, though. I don't think that your parent ( https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13714467 ) is advising not doing any work yourself, but rather combining your work with exis…

> Even if you took a simple algorithm, whereby you preferred any data you had for a location over any OSM data for the same location, surely you would wind up with a richer dataset? That gives a messy, inaccurate dataset. It ends up including cafes that were closed years ago, places that aren't even cafes, or places several blocks from where they actually are. As a user, I don't think you want to walk out to a new ca…

> If you have to review the entire OSM dataset anyway, you may as well create your own.

I don't know what terribly mapped place that is - probably one with lots of people where it made economical sense for Google to have a very high map quality, resulting in nobody using OSM - but I cannot imagine that that statement is true anywhere in the world.

I've only used OSM extensively in the Netherlands, Germany and Finland and the data is very good. The occasional time I go into Belgium, data is much less good, but the roads are there and that's usually all I'm looking for. And where Google Maps is fine in the Netherlands and Germany, OSM was clearly better in Finland.

> I see they've since been 'updated' to incorrect information by someone who doesn't even live in my city.

Might be vandalism, though I have yet to see the first case in my five years of mapping. I've seen incorrect edits, but usually it's just clueless people doing something wrong, and most of the time it's caught by people checking up on new users.

Is there a local OSM community that you can talk to, like for your country? Because invalid edits are not quite appreciated and I bet someone will jump on it when you mention it.