Runner Disqualified After Claiming 2nd Place in Fort Lauderdale Half Marathon • Hacker News Board

Re: Runner Disqualified After Claiming 2nd Place in Fort Lauderdale Half Marathon

#41

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Feb 23, 2017, 9:19 AM UTC

npunt wrote: post #28

gabemart wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I commend your call to sympathy. I don't like taking a drive-by, salacious interest in a story that doesn't affect me in the least, but will probably have serious, perhaps devastating consequences for the person involved for a long time professionally. I also think it's worth pointing out that the original article, while using photos of the person involved, never uses their full name, so is to some extent not google-…

The drive-by internet mob can be awful. A just & fair society is one where punishments fit the crime, and internet mobs deliver outsized punishment for all sorts of minor and often illusory things. I worry about how this woman is dealing with this situation, right now, in realtime - perhaps her past behaviors are a sign of some issues she's dealing with. I'm heartened by many of the comments in the blog who advocate…

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Re: Runner Disqualified After Claiming 2nd Place in Fort Lauderdale Half Marathon

#42

Post by oxide » Thu, Feb 23, 2017, 9:21 AM UTC

Personally I am fascinated by marathon cheats. Every time I see a story about someone cheating in a marathon I can't help but wonder what was going through the person's head before, during, and after.

I also wonder how often they do it, and why. You don't win any money, there is no incentive I can make out beyond bragging rights.

I mean, they aren't exactly footraces, right? It's an endurance test, IMO. Usually for charity, people usually participate for the exercise and show support for a good cause, or so I always assumed.

Winning seems totally arbitrary on one hand, but on the other hand I have to assume people do compete on some level, which makes the cheating more sensible, if you think about it in that sense.

I cheated once when I was a teenager at an online competitive game, so I'm not completely ignorant about the temptation of cheating. I'm used to people cheating at competitive online games, they're usually underskilled and looking to compensate, underage, just looking to spoil the fun, or some combination of those.

Maybe that's the intention here, to spoil the fun for those looking to compete. I suppose I'll never really know, but I can't help but ponder it whenever it comes up.

Re: Runner Disqualified After Claiming 2nd Place in Fort Lauderdale Half Marathon

#43

Post by fergie » Thu, Feb 23, 2017, 9:23 AM UTC

gabemart wrote: post #25

npunt wrote: post #20

Regardless of the cheating, this type of post doesn't fully sit right with me. Given the permanence of record on the internet, this does bring up the issue of how we police bad behavior, and how we incorporate forgiveness into that. That said, the poster was pretty fair, and generally refer to her as "the runner". It definitely reads as an obsessive sleuthing, no doubt in part because there were follow-on discoveries…

I commend your call to sympathy. I don't like taking a drive-by, salacious interest in a story that doesn't affect me in the least, but will probably have serious, perhaps devastating consequences for the person involved for a long time professionally. I also think it's worth pointing out that the original article, while using photos of the person involved, never uses their full name, so is to some extent not google-…

Thirded.

It can be really easy to make navigational errors in amateur races, especially with turnaround points. Usually there is no crowd lining the whole course, signage is bad, and the marshalling can be spotty.

Yes, this person is a bit narcissistic and a tad dishonest, but it might just have been easier to go along with the misunderstanding rather than fess up to messing up.

EDIT: OK, OK, "very dishonest" then. My point being that this stuff sometimes happens, people deal with it in different ways, and that witch-hunts can be just as damaging as the transgression itself. But yes, a lot of you (rightly) care about the integrity of amateur sportspeople who are also in the public sphere.

Re: Runner Disqualified After Claiming 2nd Place in Fort Lauderdale Half Marathon

#44

Post by DanBC » Thu, Feb 23, 2017, 9:30 AM UTC

fergie wrote: post #43

gabemart wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I commend your call to sympathy. I don't like taking a drive-by, salacious interest in a story that doesn't affect me in the least, but will probably have serious, perhaps devastating consequences for the person involved for a long time professionally. I also think it's worth pointing out that the original article, while using photos of the person involved, never uses their full name, so is to some extent not google-…

Thirded. It can be really easy to make navigational errors in amateur races, especially with turnaround points. Usually there is no crowd lining the whole course, signage is bad, and the marshalling can be spotty. Yes, this person is a bit narcissistic and a tad dishonest, but it might just have been easier to go along with the misunderstanding rather than fess up to messing up. EDIT: OK, OK, "very dishonest" then. M…

The author has another blog post to explain who s/he writes about: http://www.marathoninvestigation.com/2016/05/the-differerenc...

> The overall feedback I have received from the public regarding my work on the blog and the Boston reviews has been positive. (At some point I will try to clarify the review and filtering process - but runners that just had a bad day in Boston, or paced a friend, or just took their time, are not going to be singled out. They have nothing to worry about).

In this case she cut part of the course; she sought out officials to reassure them of her time; she accepted the medal; she faked data after the race; she only came clean after she was confronted with this information.

I agree that now she's come clean any identifying information should be removed. And I hate some of the comments that are clearly piling on. And it should be obvious but any attacks on social media are unacceptable.

Re: Runner Disqualified After Claiming 2nd Place in Fort Lauderdale Half Marathon

#45

Post by nicky0 » Thu, Feb 23, 2017, 9:32 AM UTC

oxide wrote: post #42

Personally I am fascinated by marathon cheats. Every time I see a story about someone cheating in a marathon I can't help but wonder what was going through the person's head before, during, and after. I also wonder how often they do it, and why. You don't win any money, there is no incentive I can make out beyond bragging rights. I mean, they aren't exactly footraces, right? It's an endurance test, IMO. Usually for c…

In this case the runner needed to achieve a certain qualification time for another event. So she was under pressure, which led to the poor decision.

Re: Runner Disqualified After Claiming 2nd Place in Fort Lauderdale Half Marathon

#46

Post by usrusr » Thu, Feb 23, 2017, 9:33 AM UTC

semi-extrinsic wrote: post #36

metaphor wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for point that out. Edge crispness, lack of glare, and broad daylight contrast of the display was really throwing me off.

These are "reflective" LCD displays, where there is a one-way mirror between the LCD and backlight. In daylight, the backlight is actually off and the display is illuminated by the light around you. Pretty common e.g. on all sorts of boating displays (GPS/Radar/Sonar/etc.).

And it's a shame that nobody makes an Android device for the long tail of special interest use cases where a transflective display showing some simple custom app would save the day.

Re: Runner Disqualified After Claiming 2nd Place in Fort Lauderdale Half Marathon

#47

Post by leereeves » Thu, Feb 23, 2017, 9:39 AM UTC

npunt wrote: post #28

gabemart wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I commend your call to sympathy. I don't like taking a drive-by, salacious interest in a story that doesn't affect me in the least, but will probably have serious, perhaps devastating consequences for the person involved for a long time professionally. I also think it's worth pointing out that the original article, while using photos of the person involved, never uses their full name, so is to some extent not google-…

The drive-by internet mob can be awful. A just & fair society is one where punishments fit the crime, and internet mobs deliver outsized punishment for all sorts of minor and often illusory things. I worry about how this woman is dealing with this situation, right now, in realtime - perhaps her past behaviors are a sign of some issues she's dealing with. I'm heartened by many of the comments in the blog who advocate…

I think people don't realize how the little things add up.

Any one member of an Internet mob doesn't hurt an alleged wrongdoer much, but together they do deliver outsized punishment for all sorts of minor and often illusory things.

Re: Runner Disqualified After Claiming 2nd Place in Fort Lauderdale Half Marathon

#48

Post by Inconel » Thu, Feb 23, 2017, 9:40 AM UTC

fergie wrote: post #43

gabemart wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I commend your call to sympathy. I don't like taking a drive-by, salacious interest in a story that doesn't affect me in the least, but will probably have serious, perhaps devastating consequences for the person involved for a long time professionally. I also think it's worth pointing out that the original article, while using photos of the person involved, never uses their full name, so is to some extent not google-…

Thirded. It can be really easy to make navigational errors in amateur races, especially with turnaround points. Usually there is no crowd lining the whole course, signage is bad, and the marshalling can be spotty. Yes, this person is a bit narcissistic and a tad dishonest, but it might just have been easier to go along with the misunderstanding rather than fess up to messing up. EDIT: OK, OK, "very dishonest" then. M…

>tad dishonest

I agree that the internet mob can be unduly cruel, and as a larger issue I'm uncomfortable with the notion than a single mistake a person makes is now often immortalized on the internet for eternity, but does what this runner did really count merely as a tad dishonest?

Honest navigational errors can indeed occur. I made one such mistake in high school during a cross country race that took place in an unfamiliar wooded course. I didn't even realize I had made a mistake until I reached the finish line. The giveaway for me was that I finished in front of a number of runners whom I knew throughout the season to be faster than me, and I didn't remember passing them. It was a pretty simple mistake to rectify, I told my couch and teammates and we retraced the course to the place I went off course, no big deal.

I particularly enjoyed the part of this story where the runner retraced the course later that day, on bicycle and despite feeling ill earlier, so she could spoof the GPS data. I hope that labeling something like this as being only a tad dishonest isn't emblematic of the way SV and HN in generally view the topic of honesty.

Re: Runner Disqualified After Claiming 2nd Place in Fort Lauderdale Half Marathon

#49

Post by leereeves » Thu, Feb 23, 2017, 9:41 AM UTC

angry-hacker wrote: post #26

creo wrote: post #23

Publicly shaming people for money is not right way for holding the true, athletic, fair-play spirit of running. While his work and methods are outstanding, it's still ethical burden to ask for donations just to humiliate wrongdoers. Don't get me wrong, i'm a runner myself and i'm all about reporting, but making it opportunistic just doesn't feel right for me.

Why do you think this is public shaming? If so, majority of newspapers are about public shaming. It's actually decent investigation here.

Newspapers are about public shaming and a significant portion of the public is sick of it.

I mean, look at what the WSJ tried to do to PewDiePie, how the rest of the media piled on, and how people reacted.

Re: Runner Disqualified After Claiming 2nd Place in Fort Lauderdale Half Marathon

#50

Post by roadnottaken » Thu, Feb 23, 2017, 9:42 AM UTC

fergie wrote: post #43

gabemart wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I commend your call to sympathy. I don't like taking a drive-by, salacious interest in a story that doesn't affect me in the least, but will probably have serious, perhaps devastating consequences for the person involved for a long time professionally. I also think it's worth pointing out that the original article, while using photos of the person involved, never uses their full name, so is to some extent not google-…

Thirded. It can be really easy to make navigational errors in amateur races, especially with turnaround points. Usually there is no crowd lining the whole course, signage is bad, and the marshalling can be spotty. Yes, this person is a bit narcissistic and a tad dishonest, but it might just have been easier to go along with the misunderstanding rather than fess up to messing up. EDIT: OK, OK, "very dishonest" then. M…

No way. I've missed turnarounds in races multiple times (although this usually results in running farther than intended) and it would NEVER occur to me to just go with it and grab a podium spot. This goes way beyond "a tad dishonest".