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Post-Olympic Abandonment

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Re: Post-Olympic Abandonment

#141

Post by cannonpr »

afarrell wrote: post #117
StavrosK wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even for tradition, the games in antiquity were much different from today's games. They used to be about the sport, whereas today they're about money (which is hard not to do when they're this popular, granted).

Who organised the original games and provided the infrastructure for them and how much were they paid vs whipped?

Original games were organised by the city states and were primarily a means of showing off their best potential soldiers, though it served several other reasons as well, like most things it got complex. Fun fact, even though there was meant to be an Olympic truce, it was a much favored time to backstab your neighbour since lots of cities didn't expect it and as usual the victors wrote the books.

Re: Post-Olympic Abandonment

#142

Post by johansch »

guelo wrote: post #140
johansch wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All of these comments are missing the entire point of the olympics. It's like watching engineers trying to solve business problems in entrenched markets. Hint: it's not a logistical/engineering problem. The olympics as they exist today are there to enrich the members of the IOC. That's it. How are any of all of these brilliant suggestions going to enrich the IOC members? I have no idea on how solve this, besides firs…

That's overly simplistic. Other influences include the geo-political power play and prestige, the marketing opportunities for global brands, athlete and sport fans wishes, etc.

You are just talking about the side-benefits that cause nations and companies to feed money into a corrupt system.

Re: Post-Olympic Abandonment

#143

Post by lazaroclapp »

johansch wrote: post #138
samirillian wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

S/he's saying you need to have strong evidence for such a strong claim.

The "strong claim" that the IOC is corrupt? Really? Have you been following IOC news for the past two decades? Everyone knows they're corrupt, but they do own the Olympic brand. The brand is doing great, but the organization that runs it is rotten to the core. If you really do need a URL, feel free to start here: http://google.com/search?q=olympic+corruption How do we fix this? I really can't think of a way to do it…

Strong claim that the parties necessary to hold the Olympics, namely the participating nations, chiefly care about enriching the IOC. If the countries and companies involved cared enough about it, or the public did, the brand could be bought or seized by decree and the Olympic Games modified. It is a very old term and a very old concept, so is not like it is that defensible as a trademark. Besides, at the scale of international institutions, trademarks are not particularly powerful. If the US, China, the EU and Russia wanted to change how the Olympics work, change it would.

Re: Post-Olympic Abandonment

#144

Post by johansch »

lazaroclapp wrote: post #143
johansch wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The "strong claim" that the IOC is corrupt? Really? Have you been following IOC news for the past two decades? Everyone knows they're corrupt, but they do own the Olympic brand. The brand is doing great, but the organization that runs it is rotten to the core. If you really do need a URL, feel free to start here: http://google.com/search?q=olympic+corruption How do we fix this? I really can't think of a way to do it…

Strong claim that the parties necessary to hold the Olympics, namely the participating nations, chiefly care about enriching the IOC. If the countries and companies involved cared enough about it, or the public did, the brand could be bought or seized by decree and the Olympic Games modified. It is a very old term and a very old concept, so is not like it is that defensible as a trademark. Besides, at the scale of in…

> If the US, China, the EU and Russia wanted to change how the Olympics work, change it would.

Yeah, that's so likely to happen!

US/China/EU/Russia caring so deeply about the health of the olympics that they collectively strike a deal to negate trademark agreements for the olympics, and together make something fair and enabled for a long life.

Really? Are you at all following global politics? These power houses can't really agree on anything besides ISIS being evil. (And that's a historic breakthrough!)

Re: Post-Olympic Abandonment

#145

Post by planteen »

SnacksOnAPlane wrote: post #55
StevePerkins wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Atlanta has always felt snubbed by hostility from the IOC, who didn't like the level of private corporate sponsorship used to fund the 1996 Games (nevermind that two decades later, it would be considered modestly quaint today). However, it was overwhelmingly a successful Games. It created a lasted economic boom, and much of the construction saw continued use or was repurposed afterward. Today, Atlanta is not really r…

Damn straight. The aquatic center is still in use at GA Tech. And Tech also got a lot of new housing from the Olympic Village, and a nice new student center. The Olympic Stadium turned into Turner Field, which will now be a stadium for GA State University. I believe the velodrome is still in use, although not totally sure about that. Basically, Atlanta planned very well for the post-Olympic legacy. And I think we thr…

I lived for a couple years in housing that was built for the Olympics when I went to GT. It was a nice building.

I also used the aquatic center a couple times to practice kayaking. The coolest part about that pool was you could lower the floor.

Re: Post-Olympic Abandonment

#146

Post by mianos »

simonbyrne wrote: post #115
oliyoung wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The main Olympic park is about 45' outside of the CBD, but it's regularly used. All the football codes (plus more) use the main Olympic Stadium, the surrounding venues are regularly in use too https://www.olympic.org/news/sydney-s-olympic-venues-provide...

I haven't been there in about 10 years (I moved overseas), but one of the things that bugged me about Sydney Olympic Park was that it felt a bit like a barren business park.

Although slightly barren at the time, urban development has completely surrounded the main Olympic area in Sydney. There has been masses of housing developed across the whole area. The green spaces have been maintained and further developed over the years into some of the best parks in Sydney.

Most of the facilities are running events full time and many events that used to to be hosted further to the east of the city are now at Olympic park due to the ease of transport and centrality to the majority of the population.

Personally I think the Olympics are a complete joke and totally corrupted by bribes, commercialism and professional sport. They are long past their use by date and bound to take a hit when corruption becomes more unacceptable in more places, but, the facilities built for Sydney do not belong in an essay like this.

Re: Post-Olympic Abandonment

#147

Post by lazaroclapp »

johansch wrote: post #144
lazaroclapp wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Strong claim that the parties necessary to hold the Olympics, namely the participating nations, chiefly care about enriching the IOC. If the countries and companies involved cared enough about it, or the public did, the brand could be bought or seized by decree and the Olympic Games modified. It is a very old term and a very old concept, so is not like it is that defensible as a trademark. Besides, at the scale of in…

> If the US, China, the EU and Russia wanted to change how the Olympics work, change it would. Yeah, that's so likely to happen! US/China/EU/Russia caring so deeply about the health of the olympics that they collectively strike a deal to negate trademark agreements for the olympics, and together make something fair and enabled for a long life. Really? Are you at all following global politics? These power houses can't…

They agree when their interests agree, and they have plenty of treaties and rules between them when it comes to this sort of minutia. The question is, is any of them better served by a rotating Olympics than a fixed one? If the answer is yes. Say, because it gives them a chance to gain soft power via a PR demonstration of hosting the Olympics, then it will clearly not change. But my point is not that it will change, my point is that what the IOC wants doesn't decide that, what the governments involved want does.

One possible way to explain the current situation is that there is a big incentive for both the EU and, in a lesser degree, the US, to have the Olympics fixed in Greece, a country inside the western system of alliances. Conversely, there is a big incentive for China and Russia to be able to compete for hosting the Olympics themselves or have them hosted in states that are more closely aligned with them, even with the economic cost involved. Smaller countries have incentives to both host or avoid hosting the Olympics. But none of this, none, depends on petty corruption from the IOC. This is not an engineering problem, but it is also not a business problem. As you pointed out just now, it is a geopolitics problem.

Re: Post-Olympic Abandonment

#149

Post by johansch »

lazaroclapp wrote: post #147
johansch wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If the US, China, the EU and Russia wanted to change how the Olympics work, change it would. Yeah, that's so likely to happen! US/China/EU/Russia caring so deeply about the health of the olympics that they collectively strike a deal to negate trademark agreements for the olympics, and together make something fair and enabled for a long life. Really? Are you at all following global politics? These power houses can't…

They agree when their interests agree, and they have plenty of treaties and rules between them when it comes to this sort of minutia. The question is, is any of them better served by a rotating Olympics than a fixed one? If the answer is yes. Say, because it gives them a chance to gain soft power via a PR demonstration of hosting the Olympics, then it will clearly not change. But my point is not that it will change,…

(Sorry, I'm getting tired; it's well past my bed time here. Only replying to one of your points.)

> There is a big incentive for both the EU and, in a lesser degree, the US, to have the Olympics fixed in Greece,

I think you have misunderstood the current dynamics in the EU. There would be a very, very, very big resistance towards giving Greece a gift like that, after their giant national financial fraud towards the rest of the EU during the past decade.

Re: Post-Olympic Abandonment

#150

Post by Lazare »

LeoPanthera wrote: post #134
johansch wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All of these comments are missing the entire point of the olympics. It's like watching engineers trying to solve business problems in entrenched markets. Hint: it's not a logistical/engineering problem. The olympics as they exist today are there to enrich the members of the IOC. That's it. How are any of all of these brilliant suggestions going to enrich the IOC members? I have no idea on how solve this, besides firs…

> The olympics as they exist today are there to enrich the members of the IOC. There is no [citation needed] big enough for this claim.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:You_don't_need_to_ci... :)
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