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How Peter Thiel’s Palantir helped expand the NSA’s global spy network

theintercept.com

161–170 of 207 posts

Re: How Peter Thiel’s Palantir helped expand the NSA’s global spy network

#161
post #121
post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a little bit of an oversimplification. Thiel thinks that globalization of development without massive technological advancement will lead to a kind of slow Malthusian catastrophe since current technology (fossil fuel energy systems, slow transit, inefficient power grids, etc.) cannot possibly support the entire human race at a modern developed world standard of living. I don't agree with everything Peter think…

Thiel is not the only one to make that observation. Alan Kay has said something along those lines -- that there have been virtually no compelling inventions in computing for a while now [0][1]. [0] http://stackoverflow.com/q/432922/177696 [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11941827

What's "a while" and what is "compelling"?

Re: How Peter Thiel’s Palantir helped expand the NSA’s global spy network

#162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The alt-right's embrace of racism and sexism The scope of these terms has been expanded significantly. I no longer care what anyone considers to be 'racist' or 'sexist'; I care what their values are, and if I consider them of worth. EDIT: 'alt-right' may have changed too. Some seem to thing it just means 'alternate right', others 'code-name for racists'.

"If you have always believed that everyone should play by the same rules and be judged by the same standards, that would have gotten you labeled a radical 50 years ago, a liberal 25 years ago and a racist today." Thomas Sowell

That doesn't make any sense. Racists inherently judge with a different standard.

Re: How Peter Thiel’s Palantir helped expand the NSA’s global spy network

#163
post #60
post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a little bit of an oversimplification. Thiel thinks that globalization of development without massive technological advancement will lead to a kind of slow Malthusian catastrophe since current technology (fossil fuel energy systems, slow transit, inefficient power grids, etc.) cannot possibly support the entire human race at a modern developed world standard of living. I don't agree with everything Peter think…

What's your opinion about the causes of this "mini Dark Age"? Do you still feel that we're in it?

Early 20th century has seen a dramatic change in universities: from teaching institutions, they became scientific ones. PHD programs were created in 19th century Germany, but became a requirement for professorship in most universities by the 20th century. The creation of these programs meant that being a scientist became a real job, and we began devoting resources to make sure the brightest minds could devote to scientific pursuit. This might have been a major reason of the scientific innovations that predates this "mini dark age".

To answer the question about the causes of this "mini Dark Age", I suggest two points to explain what has changed:

1) The transformation of the universities into research facilities has hit the moment of diminishing return. We scientists are now hyper-specialized and it is really hard to grasp even a tiny fraction of our field, whereas early 20th century scientists were expected to know maybe 10% of their discipline.

As sciences stabilize, great innovations become rarer and harder to achieve, and small incremental discoveries become the norm. The "publish or perish" environment makes scientists very cautious about their statements, non-working experiments are not published, preventing colleagues to avoid the same mistakes that must be made again and again.

2) The 70s, the decade associated with science slowing its innovation pace coincides with the liberalization of the financial market, known as neoliberalism. Welfare state is then discredited and privatization is then seen as the way to offer services. Banks, hedge funds and credit agencies are now, to put it (too) bluntly, ruling the world. This system of regulation of collective processes through finance is the world we know today and drives us toward a ever increasing productivity. It also creates an imperative for profits: some like it, some don't. But major innovation is not necessary to reap profits, like science was necessary to maintain the domination of some states over others. Major corporations do prefer small incremental changes. Heard about this new thing, iPhone 7? Not a big innovation, but perfect to turn steady quarterly profits. The way big oil consortia are now panicking even show that sometimes, innovation kills profit.

Today, scholarly grants are highly dependent on industrial partnerships, which foster mostly new uses of old tech. It is much a safer investment than trying to make fundamental changes. The productivity imperative, first implemented in factories, is now imposed on universities.

*

One of today biggest hype in tech, deep learning, was created (partly) because Y. Bengio from Université de Montréal chose to spit on big corporate money to focus on fundamental research. Another great scientist, Peter Higgs (Higgs like in Higgs boson!) said that if he had to comply to the productivity required of today's young scientists, he would never had been able to think what is driving today's physics.

Both of them had to go against the flow, but how many promising scientists chose the stable, profitable, corporate career path? You guys know more than me.

Re: How Peter Thiel’s Palantir helped expand the NSA’s global spy network

#164
post #4

I just don't understand how he can call himself a libertarian. Self-rationalizing has no ends.

Look at the people behind Y Combinator that condemn Trump because according to them he represents a real threat to the safety of women, minorities, and immigrants[0], but at the same time have many financial ties with Thiel's practices. They have financial power to take a stand against this threat, but decide not do it. [0] http://blog.samaltman.com/the-2016-election

This is basic game theory. Organizations and society select for maximization of wealth/power - not ethics, morality, enlightenment, and/or aspirational value of your choice.

The problem is simple: Maximize organizational wealth/power given the social, business, and political context. Anyone competing in this system who does not loses to those who do.

The current response: Placate the users by agreeing with the issues and take no real actions (beyond a call for startups focusing on democracy).

CGPGrey's rules for rulers on youtube is a great application of the model to politics and organizations.

Re: How Peter Thiel’s Palantir helped expand the NSA’s global spy network

#166
So, a former Gawker Media writer decides to point out the US goverment is using Thiel's data analysis and visualization company and you all (nearly all of you) jump on the hate-train. You people are starting to act like a quasi-religious group, and you've found your devil!

Palentir itself doesn't collect data. Palentir is used for a variety of purposes, including medical and scientific research.

The article contains several false claims, take "[...] documents provided by Edward Snowden, that Palantir has helped expand and accelerate the NSA’s global spy network". I don't have the time to go through each false claim.

From Palentir's website:

https://www.palantir.com/diversity/

- Fully paid parental leave at the birth, adoption, or foster placement of a child.

- Fully paid medical coverage for spouses and domestic partners, regardless of gender identity or expression.

- Equal health coverage for transgender individuals without exclusion for medically necessary care.

- Wellness subsidy to support a wide range of health needs.

That's actually a pretty good company to work at.

Re: How Peter Thiel’s Palantir helped expand the NSA’s global spy network

#167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Look at the people behind Y Combinator that condemn Trump because according to them he represents a real threat to the safety of women, minorities, and immigrants[0], but at the same time have many financial ties with Thiel's practices. They have financial power to take a stand against this threat, but decide not do it. [0] http://blog.samaltman.com/the-2016-election

I fail to see what this has to do with Peter Thiel's self-identification as a libertarian.

Because he complains about government funding and distortion in markets, but became a billionaire with Palantir thanks to government funding.

It's hypocritical for "libertarians" to rail against government spending, crony capitalism, and the government picking winners, and then turn around and benefit from exactly that.

Re: How Peter Thiel’s Palantir helped expand the NSA’s global spy network

#168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Look at the people behind Y Combinator that condemn Trump because according to them he represents a real threat to the safety of women, minorities, and immigrants[0], but at the same time have many financial ties with Thiel's practices. They have financial power to take a stand against this threat, but decide not do it. [0] http://blog.samaltman.com/the-2016-election

> He represents a real threat to the safety of women, minorities, and immigrants As an immigrant myself, I keep seeing famous people write this, but I want some kind of "citation needed." What plans does this actually refer to?

He's proven he's willing to enact executive orders with no notice which bar legal immigrants from entering the country. So we've got action against immigrants already. Not just plans.

Re: How Peter Thiel’s Palantir helped expand the NSA’s global spy network

#169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i'm saying that legal and illegal immigration are two different things. the fact that steve bannon dislikes both types and probably (almost certainly) dislikes non-white people has nothing to do with my point. let's say all your worst fears are true, and bannon secretly is literally hitler. does that change the fact that legal vs. illegal immigrants are different, and should be treated differently, with a different s…

You were clearly trying to paint "the other side" as unreasonable zealots, who pretend that upstanding, hardworking immigrants are under threat, when really it's only the classic illegal immigrant stereotype that your side have a problem with. (This stereotype is also BS but that's a different story...) Unfortunately for you, someone right at the very top of the Republican party that is in charge right now said somet…

i'll say it again, just in case you didn't get it the first time:

illegal aliens are different than legal immigrants, and should be treated differently under the law, and in society.

frankly, i don't care what the republicans or steve bannon think about it, that's apparently a major concern of yours, but isn't one of mine.

Re: How Peter Thiel’s Palantir helped expand the NSA’s global spy network

#170
post #166

So, a former Gawker Media writer decides to point out the US goverment is using Thiel's data analysis and visualization company and you all (nearly all of you) jump on the hate-train. You people are starting to act like a quasi-religious group, and you've found your devil! Palentir itself doesn't collect data. Palentir is used for a variety of purposes, including medical and scientific research. The article contains…

I don't follow what benefits to work at a company has anything to do with the ethics of its actions.

Note that I'm not accusing Palantir of doing whatever this article accuses them of but your argument to support the company based on its perks is very moot.

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