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Post-Olympic Abandonment

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Re: Post-Olympic Abandonment

#111

Post by mixmastamyk »

bane wrote: post #50
duiker101 wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another thing from the article that struck me as good for London is how little it costed compared to the others > The games set back Sochi $51 billion, London $11.6 billion and Beijing at least $40 billion That is no small amount, I wonder how much of it was corruption and bad management.

Corruption played a big part, but Sochi had zero infrastructure at the start, it all had to be built from wholecloth, and Beijing need to transform large parts of an existing city to become an international showpiece. London already has incredible infrastructure and is already iconic. It seems that the strategy the London Olympics really used was to simply extend off of the existing systems in place and build up in a…

I believe they purposely "underspent" to not waste money as well, and remember a Chinese friend commenting on how quaint the ceremonies/facilities were. Turns out we should be aiming for London, rather than Beijing.

Re: Post-Olympic Abandonment

#112

Post by logfromblammo »

chiph wrote: post #62
sizzzzlerz wrote: post #45

It seems to me that the countries that maintained their Olympic facilities (England, Australia, US, Norway, Germany, China) all tilt to the wealthier end of the spectrum. Conversely, the poorer ones, Brazil and Greece, really couldn't afford hosting the games in the first place, let alone maintaining the venues afterwards. These days, its the wealthier countries that turn down the offer to host because of the costs w…

Even in the US, cities are catching on that hosting an Olympics is likely a money-losing event, and they'll be saddled with poorly-built large facilities afterwards (why build well when you can build fast?). Permanent facilities, perhaps two or four per continent (for winter & summer games, and two have two host countries), would likely be a good answer.

I think Americans have been aware of this for quite a long time. That's why the Lake Placid "Olympic village" was built to be a prison, and we all just pretended it was actually a dormitory for athletes for a few short weeks. After the visitors left, they went back in to finish putting in the bars and fences.

Atlanta never would have submitted a bid if they didn't have businesses already lined up to not only take over the facilities after the event, but to participate in the design to ensure they would be fit for purpose after the visitors left.

US tax-payers would go into open revolt if their city did not have a post-event plan for all the visitor infrastructure that is at least plausibly non-disastrous. We get angry enough as it is when the city uses our taxes to subsidize just one professional sports team--a team that will probably turn around to charge us $50 per 19-inch (48 cm) seat, $10 for each beer, and just suck in league play for the next 10 seasons. As far as I'm concerned, only publicly-owned teams should even be eligible for public support, and the only "major" team in the US that even qualifies is the NFL's Green Bay Packers.

So you're going to have to line up support from a university; Live Nation or some other big concert promoter; a major or minor league sports team or two; perhaps a mall company like Simon Property Group, Westfield Group, or General Growth Properties; and maybe a hotelier like Wyndham, Hyatt, Mariott, Hilton, or Choice. You'll need restaurant franchisees, city planners, and support from the mass transit companies. And then you still have to win the event bid. Even if you do win, a lot of residents will be saying, "Oh, so you'll do actual maintenance and improvements to infrastructure for THEM, who will be here for two months and then leave you with the bill, but you won't do it for US, living here and working and paying taxes for generations? You got some esplainin' to do."

Then there is also the issue that even our most corrupt politicians sometimes balk at bribing foreign officials. Sure, they'll take under-the-table lobbying dollars from domestic corporations and casino-operating tribes all day long, and nobody bats an eye, but you get international borders involved, and suddenly they get worried about possible federal criminal charges.

Re: Post-Olympic Abandonment

#113

Post by a3n »

Any local government or ngo that proposes to its local citizens that it should host an Olympics should immediately be investigated for corruption. (Tongue barely in cheek.)

Re: Post-Olympic Abandonment

#115

Post by simonbyrne »

oliyoung wrote: post #19
docdeek wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My impression was that Sydney also did well with it’s infrastructure after the games. Maybe a result of a sports-hungry public?

The main Olympic park is about 45' outside of the CBD, but it's regularly used. All the football codes (plus more) use the main Olympic Stadium, the surrounding venues are regularly in use too https://www.olympic.org/news/sydney-s-olympic-venues-provide...

I haven't been there in about 10 years (I moved overseas), but one of the things that bugged me about Sydney Olympic Park was that it felt a bit like a barren business park.

Re: Post-Olympic Abandonment

#116

Post by jonknee »

sandworm101 wrote: post #90
pmarreck wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You could do that or you could just keep it at the same facility for, say, 20 years and THEN move it. So a country could get a 20-year economic boost (hopefully, at least long-term) and at least re-use the facilities a few times

I think any boom would be short lived. The travel novelty would grow thin. The repeated use of the same facilities would also impact the sports. More fundimental is the question of any boom. London didnt see much, with some shops downtown instead seeing marked reductions. Vancouver barely broke even. China didnt do it for the money. And the less said about Sochi's costs the better.

> The repeated use of the same facilities would also impact the sports.

Doesn't seem to matter to the Cubs or Red Sox who both play in parks over 100 years old and are two of the most popular baseball teams. When you don't have to build them new every Olympics the facilities themselves could be much higher quality and actually be maintained.

Re: Post-Olympic Abandonment

#117

Post by afarrell »

StavrosK wrote: post #108
saalweachter wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's possible that, even though it'd be nice for historicity / tradition, the Games just aren't a good fit for Greece. But one of the things that turning the Games from a maybe-just-once event for a city/country to a recurring relationship does, is that it changes the nature of the profiteering. A one-time-only event encourages profiteers to cut as deeply as they can can and really screw their customers -- no repeat…

Even for tradition, the games in antiquity were much different from today's games. They used to be about the sport, whereas today they're about money (which is hard not to do when they're this popular, granted).

Who organised the original games and provided the infrastructure for them and how much were they paid vs whipped?

Re: Post-Olympic Abandonment

#118

Post by marcosdumay »

StavrosK wrote: post #106
marcosdumay wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep. I do personally have the opinion that the World Cup and Olympics were worth much more than their cost just by the fact that they bankrupted every kind of government here and pressed the people into revolting. I estimate they were the hightest ROI project our government ever had when considered that indirect gain.

I'd agree with you, I wish lots of our corrupt officials went to jail, but I'm afraid it's not happening...

Well, our most important of our corrupts are still free, and nobody is certain if they are ever going into jail (what is already a huge improvement).

The good part is that it takes an entire mafia to run a country. I doubt its heads alone are powerful enough.

Re: Post-Olympic Abandonment

#119

Post by personlurking »

mixmastamyk wrote: post #107

I had hoped for more investment in sports in Brazil as a result of the games, and indeed the transportation improvements in/out of Barra are incredible. But unfortunately, the govt of Rio is now totally broke and on the brink of failure. To put it into perspective, in much of the country they have stopped paying their police officers a salary. ((boggle)) Not the safest city in the first place, and maintenance was nev…

Brasília made their WC stadium into a bus parking lot, IIRC. Recife built their WC stadium, the Arena Pernambuco, in a neighboring city, thinking it'd be a good way to build inland and incentivize development, but I'm pretty sure that has not happened. People would have to basically take the bus an hour or more to get there, and with 500 assaults on Recife buses in 2017 alone, it's a bit hard to do so.

A light certainly went out in Maracanã when they removed the "geral" (cheap seats for the working class) in 2005, long before the WC or OG.

Re: Post-Olympic Abandonment

#120

Post by sand500 »

StavrosK wrote: post #78
cannonpr wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's say that I have some direct experience, both with working within the Olympics games and with Greece. I don't honestly want that cesspool anywhere near Greece, the level of corruption and incompetence I witnessed by the olympic organisations and committees is staggering. The best thing you could do at this point is to stop the games and distribute the funds to healthier or new organisations.

Well, they would fit right in, but you're right, we're trying to have less corruption. I wonder if we can force the IOC to rename the games to something else, maybe they can buy a private island somewhere and host them there in isolation, for whomever wants to attend.

Build stadiums on a couple of old oil tankers and accompanying cruise ships?

Is there any country that matters that doesn't have easy water access? Russia?

Also same deal for Winter Olympics since there's a lot of water up there?

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