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Post-Olympic Abandonment

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Re: Post-Olympic Abandonment

#81

Post by cannonpr »

StavrosK wrote: post #78
cannonpr wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's say that I have some direct experience, both with working within the Olympics games and with Greece. I don't honestly want that cesspool anywhere near Greece, the level of corruption and incompetence I witnessed by the olympic organisations and committees is staggering. The best thing you could do at this point is to stop the games and distribute the funds to healthier or new organisations.

Well, they would fit right in, but you're right, we're trying to have less corruption. I wonder if we can force the IOC to rename the games to something else, maybe they can buy a private island somewhere and host them there in isolation, for whomever wants to attend.

I won't argue that they would fit right in with any government Greece has had since Kapodistrias. However there are a lot of good people in Greece right now trying to turn the situation around, the Olympic games of the past made things even harder for them, I would hate to see it land on their lap again... They seems to bring the worst out in people.

Re: Post-Olympic Abandonment

#82

Post by hotgoldminer »

SnacksOnAPlane wrote: post #55
StevePerkins wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Atlanta has always felt snubbed by hostility from the IOC, who didn't like the level of private corporate sponsorship used to fund the 1996 Games (nevermind that two decades later, it would be considered modestly quaint today). However, it was overwhelmingly a successful Games. It created a lasted economic boom, and much of the construction saw continued use or was repurposed afterward. Today, Atlanta is not really r…

Damn straight. The aquatic center is still in use at GA Tech. And Tech also got a lot of new housing from the Olympic Village, and a nice new student center. The Olympic Stadium turned into Turner Field, which will now be a stadium for GA State University. I believe the velodrome is still in use, although not totally sure about that. Basically, Atlanta planned very well for the post-Olympic legacy. And I think we thr…

The Velodrome is not still in use. There is an outdoor concrete Velodrome in East Point which is heavily used, but it was not an Olympic venue.

Re: Post-Olympic Abandonment

#83

Post by echelon »

jessaustin wrote: post #35
StevePerkins wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Atlanta has always felt snubbed by hostility from the IOC, who didn't like the level of private corporate sponsorship used to fund the 1996 Games (nevermind that two decades later, it would be considered modestly quaint today). However, it was overwhelmingly a successful Games. It created a lasted economic boom, and much of the construction saw continued use or was repurposed afterward. Today, Atlanta is not really r…

For me the thing that comes to mind most readily is the FBI screwing up and accusing that one poor dude of setting that bomb...

They're supposedly making a film about Richard Jewell starring Jonah Hill. I'm not sure who else is attached. It might be in development hell at this point as the film was first announced several years ago.

Re: Post-Olympic Abandonment

#84

Post by echelon »

libria wrote: post #73
SnacksOnAPlane wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Damn straight. The aquatic center is still in use at GA Tech. And Tech also got a lot of new housing from the Olympic Village, and a nice new student center. The Olympic Stadium turned into Turner Field, which will now be a stadium for GA State University. I believe the velodrome is still in use, although not totally sure about that. Basically, Atlanta planned very well for the post-Olympic legacy. And I think we thr…

Not to mention Centennial Olympic park is a venue for concerts and events.

Are you going to Shaky Knees? I'm always eager to meet other Atlanta-area engineers, especially if they have similar music tastes.

Re: Post-Olympic Abandonment

#85

Post by saalweachter »

cannonpr wrote: post #81
StavrosK wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, they would fit right in, but you're right, we're trying to have less corruption. I wonder if we can force the IOC to rename the games to something else, maybe they can buy a private island somewhere and host them there in isolation, for whomever wants to attend.

I won't argue that they would fit right in with any government Greece has had since Kapodistrias. However there are a lot of good people in Greece right now trying to turn the situation around, the Olympic games of the past made things even harder for them, I would hate to see it land on their lap again... They seems to bring the worst out in people.

It's possible that, even though it'd be nice for historicity / tradition, the Games just aren't a good fit for Greece.

But one of the things that turning the Games from a maybe-just-once event for a city/country to a recurring relationship does, is that it changes the nature of the profiteering.

A one-time-only event encourages profiteers to cut as deeply as they can can and really screw their customers -- no repeat sales are possible.

A recurring event still presents a large profit opportunity, but the recurrence encourages more cooperative profiteering. Contractors who don't come through or who overcharge beyond the pale don't get the repeat business.

(Of course, this doesn't always happen, and long-term graft is definitely a thing, but at least there's a possibility things might be different with a permanent venue.)

Re: Post-Olympic Abandonment

#86

Post by sethhochberg »

omegaham wrote: post #66
chiph wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even in the US, cities are catching on that hosting an Olympics is likely a money-losing event, and they'll be saddled with poorly-built large facilities afterwards (why build well when you can build fast?). Permanent facilities, perhaps two or four per continent (for winter & summer games, and two have two host countries), would likely be a good answer.

In the US at least, this is offset by the fact that large metropolitan areas have excellent D1 college facilities along with multi-use professional sports stadiums. More importantly, those facilities are already being used and will be used in the future. As far as I can tell, the biggest hassle for American cities is traffic. All of the facilities are there, but putting them into use all at once with tens of thousand…

Olympic bids often do help encourage public transit development in the US, however - a great recent example here is the extension of the 7-line subway in NYC, which was originally planned as part of the city's bid for the 2012 Olympics. After the city lost the bid, it was decided to go ahead and build the line anyways as part of another redevelopment project.

Re: Post-Olympic Abandonment

#87

Post by revelation »

M_Grey wrote: post #74
revelation wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, whoever received the billions in TV rights money pays for that. Obviously.

How long will 'TV right' be worth billions?

No idea, but after the initial expense you can pretty much fund ongoing maintenance from the leftovers you have wisely invested instead of embezzled.

Re: Post-Olympic Abandonment

#88

Post by nhaehnle »

untog wrote: post #59
sizzzzlerz wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So Greece, for example, becomes responsible for the maintenance and updates to the facilities, which they obviously can't afford now? Having a single host country works only if all the participating countries chip in annually according to their GNP or some other measure of their financial worth. How, then, is that enforced? You can always exclude those countries who are in arrears but that only harms the athletes. Fo…

I'd be interested to know how the financial benefit of hosting the Olympics (tourism, etc) would compare to upkeep of permanent facilities. In theory the crowds coming to town every 4 years would be a big economic boost, though perhaps not enough of one.

It depends a lot on whether the facilities can be put to good use and how big the tourism effect is in the interim.

An interesting case to study here is the town of Oberammergau in Bavaria. Several centuries ago, the people there vowed to put on a passion play every ten years if they were spared by the plague. They stuck to that vow and have been doing it ever since, putting on an absolutely top quality production each time. The next one will be in 2020, and tickets tend to be sold out years in advance.

Even though the town rakes in a lot of money during passion play years, they tended to be in financial dire straits all the time because of the enormous fluctuation, and (comparatively recently) started to use the rather large facilities that were built for the play also for other cultural events in off-years.

10 years gives you a bigger gap than the 4 years of the Olympics, but I'd expect similar issues to arise.

BTW, the story of Oberammergau really is absolutely fascinating. One of the rules is that only people born there can participate in the play, with the consequence being that the town systematically produces a massive amount of talented musicians, actors, and other artists, considering how small it is. Really makes you think: if there's so much potential there, then how much human potential are we wasting almost everywhere else!

Another fun fact is that one of the first electrified railways in Germany was built specifically to connect Munich to Oberammergau.

Re: Post-Olympic Abandonment

#89

Post by funkymike »

warcode wrote: post #3

There really should be a rule that you have to maintain and operate the olympic venues as a public serivce for at least 4 years after their completion if you want to host.

Wouldn't it be better to plan further ahead and make a requirement that the venues need to be in use for X years prior to the games? This would ensure that the facilities are usable outside of the Olympics.

Re: Post-Olympic Abandonment

#90

Post by sandworm101 »

pmarreck wrote: post #46
saalweachter wrote: post #36

Would it negatively impact the Olympics if we stopped rotating them at this point? I mean, besides the IOC missing out on the opportunity compete with FIFA on graft? Let's just locate the Olympics in a permanent facility -- Greece, if they'll have them, for tradition. I think between "not rebuilding everything from scratch every four years" and the expectation of recurring events, the single host country could both r…

You could do that or you could just keep it at the same facility for, say, 20 years and THEN move it. So a country could get a 20-year economic boost (hopefully, at least long-term) and at least re-use the facilities a few times

I think any boom would be short lived. The travel novelty would grow thin. The repeated use of the same facilities would also impact the sports.

More fundimental is the question of any boom. London didnt see much, with some shops downtown instead seeing marked reductions. Vancouver barely broke even. China didnt do it for the money. And the less said about Sochi's costs the better.

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