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Instacart is playing games with its workers’ pay

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Re: Instacart is playing games with its workers’ pay

#201

Post by awad »

soheil wrote: post #80
developer2 wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So Amazon Fresh has an optional tip . Instacart is adding a default 10% fee that goes into their pockets - it is not a tip. And they do not pass the 10% fee on to the employees in wages - it stays as part of their bottom line. Higher-ups realized just how much the tips are worth, are now stealing them by default behind a purposely confusing interface that their customers cannot understand, and pocketing the differenc…

I understand it's not the most conventional way of doing it, but why it's someone "higher up" and that's a bad thing? Instacart is not Mother Teresa, its sole purpose is to make profit and I want it to do that as much as it possibly can. I want this service to exist so I don't have to feel like a chimp in a grocery store with a basket going from aisle to aisle in fact why do I even need to justify why I want it to ex…

Because it is deceptive to label something a 'service fee' which most people would assume to be charges for services rendered by the feet on the ground.

In other words, it is, by way of social conventions, implied that the money goes to the 'chimp in a grocery store' doing work on your behalf. There is nothing wrong with them adding fees all day every day as long as it is made clear to the customer that said fees are not actually benefiting the actual service provider and consumers opt-in to this transaction. The shady part here is where consumers THINK the services fees goes to the service provider when actually it goes to the broker.

Re: Instacart is playing games with its workers’ pay

#202

Post by timcederman »

tyre wrote: post #8

They have tens of thousands of customers, yet are worth multiple billions of dollars (valued at $2bn in 2015.) That's just incredible. Let's say they have 100k customers who each use the service every week. That's 5.2m orders per year. Let's say $100 per order, to be generous. At a 10% service fee, that's $50m for a two-year-old 40x revenue multiple. Before paying their contracted workforce. This does not make sense.…

Have kids - you'll then discover how amazing and worth it delivery services are.

Re: Instacart is playing games with its workers’ pay

#203

Post by hkmurakami »

tyre wrote: post #8

They have tens of thousands of customers, yet are worth multiple billions of dollars (valued at $2bn in 2015.) That's just incredible. Let's say they have 100k customers who each use the service every week. That's 5.2m orders per year. Let's say $100 per order, to be generous. At a 10% service fee, that's $50m for a two-year-old 40x revenue multiple. Before paying their contracted workforce. This does not make sense.…

I have a good friend who lives a15 minute drive from a supermarket, but has a draining job. He makes good money. He Instacarts everything since he doesn't have the energy or time to do that one extra chore. He certainly doesn't mind the 10% surcharge. That probably not a sustainable market but there are certainly cases where paying 10% makes sense.

Re: Instacart is playing games with its workers’ pay

#204

Post by timcederman »

jasonpeacock wrote: post #123

I'm an avid Instacart user, and I refuse to pay the service fee, nor the tip. Companies need to pay the drivers fair wages, and charge the customers enough to do so. Don't push that responsibility to the customer. Also, the service fee is perfect example of a Dark Pattern[1]. The actual service fee option (which is pre-selected at 10%) is hidden below the fold in the iPad app (and iOS?) checkout widgets. You have to…

Yeah, I'd prefer to not pay the service fee, or the tip, but realistically by not doing so you're screwing the delivery folks, who get deliberately underpaid by companies like Instacart.

If there was an organized effort, and it was actually sending a message, then great, let's all do it! But really all you're doing is stiffing some poor underpaid delivery person.

Re: Instacart is playing games with its workers’ pay

#205

Post by timcederman »

ben174 wrote: post #154
malz wrote: post #125

https://www.instacart.com/help/section/200761924#213895126 Why does Instacart use a service amount? Instacart is different than other delivery services because multiple shoppers may be involved in a single order. Some shoppers work in stores, for example, while others are involved in driving to deliver an order. The service amount is used to pay this entire set of shoppers. Furthermore, it helps to ensure that all sh…

The way I read this is "the service fee is a way to give us more money, so we have more money to pay to everyone who works for us". So then why not just raise your prices and pay your employees more? If the service fee was split across everyone who participated in your individual transaction, I could understand. Otherwise this is just a way of them saying "a service fee is a way to tip the company, so we can maybe pa…

Because their basic fee is just the delivery fee. They don't set the prices - the supermarkets do. The service fee is a consistent way for them to generate enough revenue to pay their shoppers and drivers, compared to the variability of user-provided tips before.

Re: Instacart is playing games with its workers’ pay

#206

Post by Sacho »

Stasis5001 wrote: post #144
dawnerd wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like even if they paid their delivery people a reasonable wage they'd still expect tips. Ive had movers that made over 50/hour not including the cost of materials/truck/etc ask for a tip. I was all for Uber being tip free until drivers started driving for Lyft which does tips in-app, and now all the drivers expect it. I've always felt this way with Pizza. Most places charge a delivery fee. That itself should b…

With pizza, your solution can't work. You have to pay the driver base pay, and they get tips on top. So the base pay has to come from the menu price + delivery fee, and if you get rid of the delivery fee, it has to come from the menu price. But if you raise that, you're distorting demand by making in-restaurant purchases more expensive.

Arent in-restaurant purchases more expensive for the business, considering they need to rent space and employ waiters?

A large percentage of the pizza restaurants that deliver here offer a discount for online purchases, so tgey have essentially done what you describe.

Re: Instacart is playing games with its workers’ pay

#207

Post by bkovacev »

This feels like communism. It does not matter how hard you work, you will all get paid the same. Why should someone that worked better be rewarded the same as someone who did not work so hard?

Leave the things as they were initially. Let customer decide the performance part of the pay, you just take care of the base portion.

Unless, all they really want is the 10% for themselves.

Re: Instacart is playing games with its workers’ pay

#208

Post by gedrap »

lostlogin wrote: post #156
mikeash wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The solution is to pay them better and forbid them from taking tips. Make it clear to customers that it's not even allowed, let alone expected. Unfortunately, I don't think tipping culture is going away any time soon.

The worst part for me - places here in NZ are trying to introduce it. I've solved it by not going back, that that doesn't work if the practice spreads.

I live in Lithuania and random places are trying to introduce it, such as news agent type of convenience store. "A pack of cigarettes and here's your tip", em, no.

Re: Instacart is playing games with its workers’ pay

#209

Post by Symbiote »

Stasis5001 wrote: post #144
dawnerd wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like even if they paid their delivery people a reasonable wage they'd still expect tips. Ive had movers that made over 50/hour not including the cost of materials/truck/etc ask for a tip. I was all for Uber being tip free until drivers started driving for Lyft which does tips in-app, and now all the drivers expect it. I've always felt this way with Pizza. Most places charge a delivery fee. That itself should b…

With pizza, your solution can't work. You have to pay the driver base pay, and they get tips on top. So the base pay has to come from the menu price + delivery fee, and if you get rid of the delivery fee, it has to come from the menu price. But if you raise that, you're distorting demand by making in-restaurant purchases more expensive.

Pizza places in the UK typically give a discount for collection from the shop, which presumably accounts for the delivery cost.

It's not expected to tip a delivery person, though some people do.

Re: Instacart is playing games with its workers’ pay

#210

Post by angry-hacker »

timcederman wrote: post #204
jasonpeacock wrote: post #123

I'm an avid Instacart user, and I refuse to pay the service fee, nor the tip. Companies need to pay the drivers fair wages, and charge the customers enough to do so. Don't push that responsibility to the customer. Also, the service fee is perfect example of a Dark Pattern[1]. The actual service fee option (which is pre-selected at 10%) is hidden below the fold in the iPad app (and iOS?) checkout widgets. You have to…

Yeah, I'd prefer to not pay the service fee, or the tip, but realistically by not doing so you're screwing the delivery folks, who get deliberately underpaid by companies like Instacart. If there was an organized effort, and it was actually sending a message, then great, let's all do it! But really all you're doing is stiffing some poor underpaid delivery person.

True, but if more people would do it, no one would start working for them in the first place and they would be forced to raise the salaries.
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