Live data from Hacker News

Instacart is playing games with its workers’ pay

recode.net

111–120 of 371 posts

Re: Instacart is playing games with its workers’ pay

#111

Not a US citizen but I find the whole tipping experience rather stressful and an additional item to worry about. I like it that Uber has it built into the service and there's only one thing to pay. I'd rather pay a flat increase on the menu and expect higher staff salaries than to have the delivery boy/waiter be at my mercy of tipping.

I am a US citizen and I completely agree. I'm used to it in restaurants, but other situations have me searching online to see what's expected, and worrying that I got it wrong. I'd really like to see the whole concept die.

Re: Instacart is playing games with its workers’ pay

#112

This sounds extremely scummy, and if the story really is as simple as this article tells it I don't understand how the CEO of this company can look at himself in the mirror. I think a great example of an app that lets me give positive feedback to service people is Uber. They let you get a ride ASAP with as little decision making as possible, and then you can rate it after you get where you're going and you have some…

One of the reasons I prefer to use Lyft is that they let you tip drivers.

[deleted]

Re: Instacart is playing games with its workers’ pay

#113

This sounds extremely scummy, and if the story really is as simple as this article tells it I don't understand how the CEO of this company can look at himself in the mirror. I think a great example of an app that lets me give positive feedback to service people is Uber. They let you get a ride ASAP with as little decision making as possible, and then you can rate it after you get where you're going and you have some…

One of the reasons I prefer to use Lyft is that they let you tip drivers.

Better yet, they encourage it.

Re: Instacart is playing games with its workers’ pay

#114

This sounds extremely scummy, and if the story really is as simple as this article tells it I don't understand how the CEO of this company can look at himself in the mirror. I think a great example of an app that lets me give positive feedback to service people is Uber. They let you get a ride ASAP with as little decision making as possible, and then you can rate it after you get where you're going and you have some…

One of the reasons I prefer to use Lyft is that they let you tip drivers.

[deleted]

Re: Instacart is playing games with its workers’ pay

#115
post #66

Wait a minute... wait. Those service fees I've been opting to pay haven't been going to the shoppers/drivers who are processing my order? On my last order I asked the shopper to specifically go out of her way to check on an out of stock item. I did this with the assumption that my 7 dollar service fee was going directly to her, and that she would therefore be happy to go out of her way. When the delivery person (I th…

I've learned this once talking to one of the shoppers. I never tipped again after that / I tip in cash for the good ones once they deliver at my door.

The shoppers do not deliver to your door FYI.

Re: Instacart is playing games with its workers’ pay

#116
post #10
post #8

They have tens of thousands of customers, yet are worth multiple billions of dollars (valued at $2bn in 2015.) That's just incredible. Let's say they have 100k customers who each use the service every week. That's 5.2m orders per year. Let's say $100 per order, to be generous. At a 10% service fee, that's $50m for a two-year-old 40x revenue multiple. Before paying their contracted workforce. This does not make sense.…

It makes a lot of sense if you know how perverse financial markets are. The difference between those millions and those billions is the perceived potential of the company. All you need is some investment banker becoming convinced that noone wants to visit physical stores anymore, and suddenly money starts pouring into companies supporting that view of the future, almost regardless of whether they are actually profita…

Right, so the question becomes "Why do enough people perceive the potential of Instacart to be billions when a back of the envelope calculation by a guy on Hacker News suggests that's not the case?"

Presumably said investment bankers are capable of doing the same math as Hacker News readers, so why did they still fork the money over when they have many other crazy bets to choose from?

Re: Instacart is playing games with its workers’ pay

#117

I think Instacart's other justification for this is that multiple people are now involved in procuring your groceries. One person shops and another delivers. If you tip in cash, the shopper gets nothing. Can't speak to if this is their real motive, but does seem to be in line with other criticisms of tipping (e.g. waitresses making much more than kitchen staff).

This is a misdirection and Instacart knows it. In the old system, the shopper got half the tip. Source: I worked as an Instacart driver for fun.

Re: Instacart is playing games with its workers’ pay

#118

This sounds extremely scummy, and if the story really is as simple as this article tells it I don't understand how the CEO of this company can look at himself in the mirror. I think a great example of an app that lets me give positive feedback to service people is Uber. They let you get a ride ASAP with as little decision making as possible, and then you can rate it after you get where you're going and you have some…

One of the reasons I prefer to use Lyft is that they let you tip drivers.

I tip my Uber drivers. I just give them cash. Uber doesn't know about it unless the drivers report the tips, and I doubt they do.

Re: Instacart is playing games with its workers’ pay

#119
post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is it dishonest? It's a fee for the service that one receives. You pay one amount for groceries and another for the service of those groceries being delivered. That's exactly what a service fee should be. Consumers should understand that services have a cost. Companies should charge consumers an amount that is commensurate with the cost that it takes to deliver that service (unless they operate in a non-competiti…

You may have missed the part where the service fee is optional and can be removed, or replaced with a tip to the employee. The fact that the fee is optional, instantly makes it not a "fee". Service fees are not a discretionary addon that customers can choose to eliminate.

Yes, you can set it to 0, but they are 100% trying to trick people into not tipping and giving instacart the money. At my neighborhood restaurant they eliminated tips and replaced it with a fixed service fee of 20% they give to the employees. It's common to call such things service fees and to think that goes to the end workers, instead of the corp. It's indefensible to say they didn't mean to trick people into thinking it was a tip for the delivery people.

Re: Instacart is playing games with its workers’ pay

#120
post #8

They have tens of thousands of customers, yet are worth multiple billions of dollars (valued at $2bn in 2015.) That's just incredible. Let's say they have 100k customers who each use the service every week. That's 5.2m orders per year. Let's say $100 per order, to be generous. At a 10% service fee, that's $50m for a two-year-old 40x revenue multiple. Before paying their contracted workforce. This does not make sense.…

>What is the market for +10% on groceries and basic necessities? People who live in the suburbs without cars. Cities are successfully discouraging car ownership by making parking scarce near downtown offices and even the suburban transit stations that lead to downtown offices. At the same time, cities aren't permitting the construction of dense, walkable neighborhoods, at least not fast enough to make them affordable…

It's also very useful for college students with no cars, that live in off campus apartments with 3-4 people (can split delivery fees, tip, etc).
Post reply on HN