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Want an energy efficient datacenter? Build it underwater

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111–120 of 172 posts

Re: Want an energy efficient datacenter? Build it underwater

#111

I really can't see the benefit of submerging these -- the complexity involved with keeping out several hundred PSI of sea water just doesn't seem to make sense to me. For the cooling aspect, they're already using pumped water and heat exchangers. What is the benefit of submersion vs just pumping sea water from a pipe to a land, or barge-based datacenter and using that to cool?

I don't think it would be that complex, since the pods can be permanently sealed and don't need to exchange matter with the environment. I would assume that a lot of the complexity in waterproofing marine vessels comes from the need for openable doors.

Re: Want an energy efficient datacenter? Build it underwater

#112

Imagine if you built a data center was on a river that was fed by mountain snow melt, and you created a diversion that took some of that water, ran it along heat exchangers in your racks and the out through a hydro-power unit and back into the river on the other side. You might be able to build the first negative PUE data center in the world. But you wouldn't tell anyone about it lest you lose your competitive advant…

The Google datacenter a few miles from my house my house is right next to the Chattahoochee river. They take water from the treatment plant that was going to be pumped into the river to use in their heat exchangers. Then they clean it and pump it into the river.

Re: Want an energy efficient datacenter? Build it underwater

#113
post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Less than or equal to the same amount of energy would be dissipated, but it would be closer to the actual ice.

But global warming isnt caused by energy dissipation, its caused by the greenhouse effect.

I'm not sure why you're getting downvoted. Humans producing heat is not the problem; humans producing pollution is.

Re: Want an energy efficient datacenter? Build it underwater

#114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's say climate change gets absolutely horrific, and we see a 1m rise in sea levels over the course of a pod's 10 year lifespan. So your underwater datacenter pod, originally deployed 200m below the surface, is now at 201m. Somehow I don't think this would be an enormous problem.

A similar argument could be made for concerns over rising water temperatures as a result of climate change - what might be considered a dramatic rise to climate scientists and marine biologists would likely have little impact on a datacenter.

Forget climate scientists and marine biologists -- if ocean temperatures rise 3-4 degrees, we will all have much bigger problems than increased datacenter cooling costs.

Re: Want an energy efficient datacenter? Build it underwater

#116
post #37

I'm all for exploring new approaches, however: a) Salt water is highly corrosive. Wouldn't maintenance costs be high? b) Isn't marine biology highly sensitive to heat pollution? For high latency services like Amazon Glacier, wouldn't it make sense to host in a place like Iceland? Really cheap hydrothermic/clean power. Highly educated local talent pool, and relatively consistent cool temperatures. If you're maintainin…

For a, you can put a sacrificial anode on the frame. Given that the rate of corrosion should be known, the size of it can be calculated to however long the pod is expected to be in service.

I will say that my only experience with sacrificial anodes is that they help but don't prevent corrosion entirely. We had screws starting to turn to dust from a couple hundred hours of pool water exposure even with a sizeable anode. Maybe it wasn't in sufficient contact or whatever. They're unlikely to be curealls anyway.

Re: Want an energy efficient datacenter? Build it underwater

#117
post #115

Doesn't work. DigitalOcean has been working on this for some time and their Atlantis datacenter still isn't open. https://www.digitalocean.com/company/blog/announcing-atlanti...

For those who might miss the date on that blog post, it's an April Fool's joke.

Re: Want an energy efficient datacenter? Build it underwater

#120

I see the makings of a great story. In 300 years, treasure hunters search for a lost data-center that drifted away in a storm.

... and sell the treasure (data) they find to advertisers?

sad to report the treasure analogy fails, if you price bulk data feeds from brokers.

My suspicion is that it's simply not likely to be anyone's choice, as a talented programmer, or data scientist, or even academic in related , to work for a advertising agency, even if salaries were comparable. The difficulty of comparing salaries that's not obvious to the casual observer might inform about cultural values: agencies indeed reward strongly correlated to results. But the tendency is to create expense account lifestyles that are lavish golden handcuffs. I have known fiends reach the age they feel a family is overdue, but be unable to almost even speak at the reality their lifestyle as a single young employee would require a zero before tax, appended to their base remuneration. I don't even think that shock is so rare, but rarer since 08 certainly, as whole societies are feeling financial pressure. Adland is a perilous bubble for those possessing the greatest talents to inflate the bubble. often would fantasize at I opening a meeting with a sharp announcement, "This is a code review. You don't write software. But every line you communicate, causes a trace effect in the reality of sales for our customers (clients, but i loathe the word) We shall now begin by taking one another's client proposals and creative briefs, anonymously, and, after explaining in summary the method and action of the instruction that was acted upon by this agency, analyze the accuracy and efficiency and reliability of each part of those tasks, against this cube containing enough data to clarify sales that each action can possibly affect. ___ Oh, yes, this does happen time to time, by some value of approximately, but would you habitually demand a team confine themselves to measurable actions whose methods can be verified, classified, and show to interact properly with other job roles, few agency company cultures would not be quickly suffering. I believe as I did not long after first hired, when whiskey under the desk was far from unacceptable, barely frowned upon, that mental and emotional well being is inversely disproportional to dominant environment structure and cohesion. i.e. random makes unhappy minds.

No disrespect intended towards some very goo data driven agencies i've known, but data is treated as almost anathema to advertising agencies and especially creatives. Prof Ritson laments the effect of this has been to fragment creative talent so far from the vital intrinsic of the profession, that data is maligned (and arguably more so due to systematic fraud become a openly accepted rate of $8BLN p.a.) that the cumulative effect is utter dysfunction. My own experience of trying to command data with utility in agency settings, is of oil and water that mix only when copious branded detergent ads are applied. (Because detergents are typically marketed by "under the line" advertising, coupons, direct mail (as Prof Ritson argues the web became in L.C.D. finality) where numbers are considered appropriately valuable.

That was long wind talk to support a flippant view that if ad agencies knew how to use the data they are collecting, it would cost maybe more than cents in the dollar, to reliably pull complete personal records to "enrich" a website's logs. I'm talking your cell no., income, every personal aspect, recent purchases this week, diet, health data too often sold. Because it has only limited marginal value to each user, meaning advertiser or seller, for websites being direct mail then because direct mail responses hold at a single digit percentage for all i unknowingly may surmise may be a fundamental law of nature, the value of any record is held very low indeed. Yet at each passing through the system, data attaches to the record, and the probability of incredibly invasive data being available on anyone lapse even momentarily regarding their cookie oversight drifts upwards to one. Which makes astonishing detail of data perpetually anyone's for peanuts.

I omitted my flippant belief that agencies are unable to learn how to use data, causing the overflow ad oversupply and undervaluation of dangerous intimate data, but the above marginal value and incremental tendency of records which rarely are pruned, accurately explains the sad real mechanism selling our privacy for oh, maybe 20 cents for a map of your life this past week...

Can we not bury the ad network servers at sea?

I guess that only means more latency..

If you're a startup and can find a good small agent to buy print adverts, look to the myriad association vanity magazines, that parallel vertical trade magazines. Prime positions can be had for peanuts. Amid hardly any competing advertisers. Three, last time I got a copy of The Royal Institute Of Engineers in house glossy magazine, Ingenia. (excellent read, too. Just three advertising pages. The fourth might be your company, negotiated fora couple thousand. Gales used to do the International Professional Associations Directory, which we used starting out too long ago, to broker at first by hand, pencil, HP17 and phone. Phones. Trader turrets...

I think we need a law to actually throw the unthinkable mass of data out there in private company hands, too easily bought, too cheaply bought, by anyone, into the sea already. A restart with only brief amnesty.; If you did succeed in not being tracked and profiled, you'll be recorded as a infill extrapolation or pure guesswork, and i think made up data, by the wrong parties, is even more dangerous. Those incremented "enriched lists" are too easily salted.

(Disclaimer: my company now works on developing we hope will allow monitoring of such data records without leaking identities of subject customers. But we'd rather not think the job is worth doing. If anyone intrepid or reckless or otherwise misguided ever desires advice how to best book pint ads for the customer, for your own use, i'd be delighted to respond best i can, email in profile)

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