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Want an energy efficient datacenter? Build it underwater

spectrum.ieee.org

101–110 of 172 posts

Re: Want an energy efficient datacenter? Build it underwater

#101
post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Salt water is highly corrosive. To metals. Not so much to plastics. > Isn't marine biology highly sensitive to heat pollution? Isn't land-based biology highly sensitive to heat pollution?

Plastics are good, but you need to have tubes going into the thing, as well as some means of accessing the inside even if you only access it on a ship/land. That means rubber and metal will have to be on the exterior somewhere.

How submerged does this have to be?

Could periscopes aim optical networks, say from 20m below?

I'm imagining biomass consuming "creatures", now, with gills to draw the effluent waste from areas around raw sewage outflows that horrified me when little, despite ,my dad rarely corrected about such things, assured me they were legal at the end's distance from shore that i could easily spot nonetheless.

My optical networks knowledge is nil, but can simply larger diameter less pure plastic optic fibers transmit sufficient data, compensating by cross section in any way? Assuming one might try to build them strong enough to act also as physical ties, if other limits on movement like chains failed? Can such plastics be made?

Re: Want an energy efficient datacenter? Build it underwater

#102
Seems like it would be simpler and easier to just build a datacenter near the ocean and pump seawater to it.

Regardless of how it works, I wonder if it's possible to get significantly more performance out of chips that are explicitly designed to operate at a much lower maximum temperature? Let's say you want to build a datacenter somewhere like the Northern coast of Alaska or Antarctica, and you have year-round reliable and abundant access to sea water that's barely above freezing, and suppose that you're willing to order enough CPUs / GPUs / bitcoin mining ASICs or whatever to justify your supplier to design and manufacture custom chips to operate in a lower temperature range. Is there some potential boon to performance or reduced manufacturing cost (due to looser tolerances) that might make such an effort worthwhile?

Re: Want an energy efficient datacenter? Build it underwater

#103

I'm all for exploring new approaches, however: a) Salt water is highly corrosive. Wouldn't maintenance costs be high? b) Isn't marine biology highly sensitive to heat pollution? For high latency services like Amazon Glacier, wouldn't it make sense to host in a place like Iceland? Really cheap hydrothermic/clean power. Highly educated local talent pool, and relatively consistent cool temperatures. If you're maintainin…

Consider that there are many underwater volcanos. A data center would be negligible.

Re: Want an energy efficient datacenter? Build it underwater

#104
I really can't see the benefit of submerging these -- the complexity involved with keeping out several hundred PSI of sea water just doesn't seem to make sense to me.

For the cooling aspect, they're already using pumped water and heat exchangers. What is the benefit of submersion vs just pumping sea water from a pipe to a land, or barge-based datacenter and using that to cool?

Re: Want an energy efficient datacenter? Build it underwater

#105
post #45

This is ridiculous. Data centers contain thousands of racks like the single rack shown in the demo "pod" and they all require hands-on human maintenance from time to time. This becomes quite a bit harder when your server rack is in a sealed steel tube on the seafloor. Splitting the data center into thousands of "pods" will also greatly increase the cost of cabling and connectors for power and data distribution (we're…

Recent AWS presentation showed off very less dense server configurations than any commercial vendor typically offers.

I guessed, i forget now if there was specific mention, that airflow simply costs a lot more than I first realized, after all i am only dumping host fan exhausts into someone else's co'lo design, which then has to deal with that. I bet it's substantially different, owning the whole building.

So, what if just submerging containers or pods of servers in cold sea water, combined with unforced airflow designs, was a passive cooling possibility?

After all, in theory, there's no surrounding facility to cool, and space is unlikely to be a major direct cost factor.

Despite I wonder, given land reliably increases in value, whether, once land acquisition is factored out, the kind of permits and early studies might bring costs back again.(excluding design NRE)

Marine insurance struck me as a important unknown.

I grew up by the Channel coast in England, and i can't imagine anyone allowing heavy containers to be anchored or moored where they might break free into shipping lanes, without quite detailed study and assurances.

Re: Want an energy efficient datacenter? Build it underwater

#106

I really can't see the benefit of submerging these -- the complexity involved with keeping out several hundred PSI of sea water just doesn't seem to make sense to me. For the cooling aspect, they're already using pumped water and heat exchangers. What is the benefit of submersion vs just pumping sea water from a pipe to a land, or barge-based datacenter and using that to cool?

Why does it have to be several hundred PSI? They don't have to put it at the bottom of the ocean. A shallow lake or river would work just as well.

Re: Want an energy efficient datacenter? Build it underwater

#107
Imagine if you built a data center was on a river that was fed by mountain snow melt, and you created a diversion that took some of that water, ran it along heat exchangers in your racks and the out through a hydro-power unit and back into the river on the other side. You might be able to build the first negative PUE data center in the world.

But you wouldn't tell anyone about it lest you lose your competitive advantage!

Re: Want an energy efficient datacenter? Build it underwater

#108
post #102

Seems like it would be simpler and easier to just build a datacenter near the ocean and pump seawater to it. Regardless of how it works, I wonder if it's possible to get significantly more performance out of chips that are explicitly designed to operate at a much lower maximum temperature? Let's say you want to build a datacenter somewhere like the Northern coast of Alaska or Antarctica, and you have year-round relia…

> Is there some potential boon to performance or reduced manufacturing cost

Guessing, but in the balance, I would assume no. Power generation costs are higher and service is less reliable. Staffing is more costly. Transport for all other resources is also more costly and at a much higher delay than in many other areas that are traditionally used.

From my own experience with high power (~25kW) FM radio transmitters, some of which we have at the top of mountains in the middle of ski-resorts: while cooling costs are reduced throughout the winter, they /aren't/ totally eliminated, so you still need to size and maintain the equipment for summer loads anyways. Getting to the site to do work and maintenance is an absolute chore; replacing the transmitter was a 10 man job where similar rigs in other locations only required 3.

Although, if it was the summer, after we finished our work, we got to take the alpine slide down the hill. As to why we put it there in the first place, signal coverage was excellent, and they already had the power we required available due to the chair-lifts being nearby. If we could have put it somewhere else and got the same coverage, we would have.

Re: Want an energy efficient datacenter? Build it underwater

#109

I see the makings of a great story. In 300 years, treasure hunters search for a lost data-center that drifted away in a storm.

... and sell the treasure (data) they find to advertisers?

i am quite sure if most visitors here sat in front a randomly selected home computer, the relevancy of a message in the bottle, here, would be how fast pages render thanks to advertising networks. I took a 18 month mid-late sabbatical rolling up time owed, until last March, almost free of computing entirely, and I still cannot undo the effect i experienced, i drifted into rage ranting to an attorney friend how I had a claim for Theft Of Electricity (I think section 3 of Theft Act 80 in the E&W bit of UK) , i was so incapable of absorbing the enormity of influence.

(Disclaimer I work in advertising, but printed kind, on principle. I am naturally absolutely pro advertising, but Prof Mark Ritson is worth your time infinitely more than mine, to hear views not greatly distant, how advertising agencies have ruined their own business, making online ads a deeply revolting sick joke, on them as much as readers. Readers not "users" or even "visitors". Audience if it's audio or video, certainly, and for "reach" discussion of publications identifiable by social influence creating thereby a eagerly receptive audience willing to passively consume. But Readers we are. Prof. Ritson's talks on the tube are superb, and are better at teaching what I wish every customer, let alone every small customer* or startup. I beg anyone selling anything anywhere study what that man says about the industry you may rely on for customers and livelihood.

I still have Sting singing "Clickbait in a bottle" in my head...

* (my foible to say customer not client, because soliciting clients is unlawful in public, sorry bad law joke intimating prostitution by who seek @clients@ when most "clients" really want to buy concretely deliverable things)

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