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Want an energy efficient datacenter? Build it underwater

spectrum.ieee.org

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Re: Want an energy efficient datacenter? Build it underwater

#21

Post by chatmasta »

kortex wrote: post #9

I wonder what the cost differential is (any given rack, not just an underwater one) for a system which is designed to NEVER be maintained by people over its service life (or duty). Hard drive goes bad? Board fails? Just push the load elsewhere and shut off power to it. No idea what sort of attrition rate these systems have. Sure, you might be at 50% capacity after 3 years, but that's just like lithium ion batteries.

Interesting question. Perhaps you should look at the cost of spacecraft engineering for an example. You can't replace the hard drive on a probe billions of miles from earth!

Re: Want an energy efficient datacenter? Build it underwater

#22

Post by deftnerd »

The article mentions that one of the benefits is that they don't have to deal with building codes being different in different places. It's truly an "off the shelf" data center that doesn't have to be customized for the laws, zoning, and codes in that area.

But who is in charge of the seabed around the United States? I imagine that I can't just drop a big metal container on the ocean floor without informing someone or asking permission, otherwise there would be a lot of things just dumped out there.

I also wonder about jurisdiction. If the data center is outside of the Territorial Zone (12 nautical miles from shore) but is inside of the 200nm exclusive economic zone (EEZ), which country would jurisdiction fall under? The country that owns the EEZ? Would the data center fly a flag of its owning country? Perhaps the country where the cabling comes ashore?

Some interesting legal questions. Perhaps the datacenter would be treated like a submarine in terms of jurisdiction. It could allow Microsoft to have their Irish branch open data centers 13 nautical miles offshore of the West Coast to provide storage that's harder for the US to legally get into.

Re: Want an energy efficient datacenter? Build it underwater

#23

Post by tn13 »

deftnerd wrote: post #22

The article mentions that one of the benefits is that they don't have to deal with building codes being different in different places. It's truly an "off the shelf" data center that doesn't have to be customized for the laws, zoning, and codes in that area. But who is in charge of the seabed around the United States? I imagine that I can't just drop a big metal container on the ocean floor without informing someone o…

But what about global warming ? Wouldn't rising water levels be a big threat to such experiments ?

Re: Want an energy efficient datacenter? Build it underwater

#24

Post by jefflombardjr »

I'm all for exploring new approaches, however:

a) Salt water is highly corrosive. Wouldn't maintenance costs be high?

b) Isn't marine biology highly sensitive to heat pollution?

For high latency services like Amazon Glacier, wouldn't it make sense to host in a place like Iceland? Really cheap hydrothermic/clean power. Highly educated local talent pool, and relatively consistent cool temperatures. If you're maintaining 80F (http://www.datacenterknowledge.com/archives/2008/10/14/googl...) the ambient temps outside should provide ample cooling year round.

For lower latency requirements, wouldn't it be worth it to install efficient cooling powered by electricity? (preferably renewable) With cheap solar who really cares about grid power loss and associated inefficiencies?

Essentially, I think it makes sense to get better at solar than to have Steve Zissou as a server admin.

Re: Want an energy efficient datacenter? Build it underwater

#26

Post by lithos »

jedberg wrote: post #5

This is great. A long time ago I had this crazy idea that if we built data centers at the poles, we could solve a lot of problems. Each one would sit idle 1/2 the year, but you could power it with solar and cool it with the outside air. Of course the big problem was latency. It was one I couldn't conceive of a good solution for. This is much better. It takes advantage of the same idea but you can park it right next t…

There was an article posted about one of the Antarctic data centers. And it's a horrible place to put one. Air too dry, too cold, parts being months away, and rubber/cardboard losing the properties that it needs. The shear terror when power goes out which will destroy a server if it's out too long.

Re: Want an energy efficient datacenter? Build it underwater

#27

Post by nxc18 »

adamwi wrote: post #18

Always fun with people that run with exotic ideas =) I might be missing some aspects but would it not be much easier to locate the datacenter on land but close to the ocean (or other large body of water), with similar principles as used for cooling nuclear reactors? Then you would get the benefits but would not have the same strict requirements on reliability of the components. If you locate it on land you would also…

I would be concerned with the cost of real estate at that point. They didn't talk about it, but I expect they're not paying rent/buying land off shore. Seaside real estate is expensive afaik.

Re: Want an energy efficient datacenter? Build it underwater

#29

Post by alkonaut »

I can see the problem of delivering effective data centers to warm climates, but apart from the latency aspect, my guess is that Facebook's strategy of building a traditional mega-data center close to cheap hydro power in a region with year round cool air is more economic than this.

I hope to see them succeed though, especially if the data centers can be self sustained with wind or ocean (wave, tidal, ...) power.

Re: Want an energy efficient datacenter? Build it underwater

#30

Post by Florin_Andrei »

jefflombardjr wrote: post #24

I'm all for exploring new approaches, however: a) Salt water is highly corrosive. Wouldn't maintenance costs be high? b) Isn't marine biology highly sensitive to heat pollution? For high latency services like Amazon Glacier, wouldn't it make sense to host in a place like Iceland? Really cheap hydrothermic/clean power. Highly educated local talent pool, and relatively consistent cool temperatures. If you're maintainin…

> Salt water is highly corrosive.

To metals. Not so much to plastics.

> Isn't marine biology highly sensitive to heat pollution?

Isn't land-based biology highly sensitive to heat pollution?

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