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Why Do So Many Incompetent Men Become Leaders? (2013)

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Re: Why Do So Many Incompetent Men Become Leaders? (2013)

#151
post #107

Because talking with confidence will go 90% of the way to convincing people that you know what you're talking about. So often I've worked with assholes who talk with such confidence that most people won't bother filtering the garbage coming from their mouths. They just believe it. It's almost eerie how effectively talking with confidence works. It's so effective that when you complain about these charlatans, YOU look…

> Because talking with confidence will go 90% of the way to convincing people that you know what you're talking about. This combines with the fact that the vast majority of people do not want to get into a confrontation. Consequently, everybody thinks that everybody else agrees. > It's so effective that when you complain about these charlatans, YOU look like an asshole, even when you are completely factual. You have…

You just explained meeting confidence with confidence. Perhaps the best strategy, but now you're one of 'them'!

The horror. /s

Re: Why Do So Many Incompetent Men Become Leaders? (2013)

#153

Because talking with confidence will go 90% of the way to convincing people that you know what you're talking about. So often I've worked with assholes who talk with such confidence that most people won't bother filtering the garbage coming from their mouths. They just believe it. It's almost eerie how effectively talking with confidence works. It's so effective that when you complain about these charlatans, YOU look…

On a tangential note, there's another quality that struck me as (paradoxically) expected and surprising. In my prior role, I worked as an analyst on a sales desk at a large investment bank -- a group in which "talking with confidence" really was 90% of the job. The head of the desk had been one of the best salesman in the industry, and had (fairly) received compensation to reward that. However, that didn't quite tran…

Absolutely. This is why it's essential for an organization to offer career advancement along both management and individual contributor tracks. Moving a highly effective contributor to a management role exacts two costs: the loss of a high performer and the addition of a bad manager (with the knock-on effects that that has on the people that person manages). Yet most companies only have one tool for recognizing achievement: jobs in management.

Re: Why Do So Many Incompetent Men Become Leaders? (2013)

#154
post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At the risk of being divisive, this will generally only work if you're white, if you're a minority or a woman, there's way more pushback on all those things, even when you're right. Seen it many times.

I don't think its a race issue so much as a physical appearance issue. Height, attractiveness, facial structure, body size. Certain people look "presidential" and they command a lot of automatic respect just based on appearance. There are plenty of minority people that have this quality. There are plenty of white males lacking this quality. Look-ism is the huge issue that is almost never talked about. In most compani…

It's hard to say "looking presidential" isn't related to race or gender when ~98% of presidents have been white men (assuming you're talking about the United States president!)

Re: Why Do So Many Incompetent Men Become Leaders? (2013)

#156
post #155

The only fair solution: The leader of a group should be selected by random. The probability that the least competent will be selected is then inverse proportional to the size of the group.

Has been proposed before, and it was the preferred and traditional Athenian method:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sortition

Would definitely be very interesting, I wouldn't mind trying it.

Re: Why Do So Many Incompetent Men Become Leaders? (2013)

#157
post #144
post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This behavior is reinforced by current child-rearing and educational practices as well. Think about how much emphasis is placed on blind confidence, self-esteem, extroversion, etc. (at least in the U.S.). So it makes sense that confidence would be rewarded later in life when society defines it as a key metric before then. I recall reading a book which posited that this shift to confidence over other "interior" charac…

If you're able to could to find out the title of this book? It sounds interesting.

I'm not the author of the original comment, but I recall reading a similar argument in the book:

Quiet: The Power of Introverts in a World That Can't Stop Talking by Susan Cain

https://www.amazon.com/Quiet-Power-Introverts-World-Talking/...

Re: Why Do So Many Incompetent Men Become Leaders? (2013)

#158
post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At the risk of being divisive, this will generally only work if you're white, if you're a minority or a woman, there's way more pushback on all those things, even when you're right. Seen it many times.

if you're a minority or a woman, there's way more pushback on all those things My counter to that is Theranos.

Except that alot of her image was modeled on Steve Jobs, who was a confident male figure, though not the same image as a more traditional CEO.

Re: Why Do So Many Incompetent Men Become Leaders? (2013)

#159

One of the most interesting facts in Francis Fukuyama's The Origins of Political Order was that the most primordial form of human social groupings, small bands of hunter gatherers, are organised along egalitarian and democratic lines, without any recognisable leader. There may be an individual who the other members of the band listen to more than others, but only due to their proven experience and wisdom. And there i…

Hunter-gatherers generally didn't store meat. Therefore, when the best hunter in the group brought home a large animal, he shared it with all. Likewise, there were few physical possessions or need for such, and so these were shared too. But egalitarian? Not a chance. Studies show that even modern hunters expend enormous energy and risk their lives hunting over the real prize: access to mates.

That's a very debatable point, and I'm not sure what you're trying to say really. The closest analogs we have are the native groups of the Americas, Africa, and Australia, and nearly all of them pair and form alliances of extended families without more than the occasional competition.

Most primitive life is harsh enough that you don't need to compete too much over mates. People with injury or chronic illnesses get knocked out just from going about their daily existence.

Re: Why Do So Many Incompetent Men Become Leaders? (2013)

#160
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure I agree with this. Are you saying all voting is rigged? Also not all incompetent managers are micro-managers, I have had problems with managers that are uninvolved as well. It may be possible for a candidate to gain votes by promising free benefits (or even non-free benefits) to their constituents and then actually grant those benefits. I would not describe that situation as a problem because that's exac…

There are a lot of facts that need to be explained but I'll try to tell you the ideas in a few paragraphs. I cant summarise a whole stack of books in such a short time. Representative Democracy: Do you understand by that a contract between people where those who never paid a cent in tax but receive free benefits have the right to vote ? Maybe that will answer the question about how incompetent managers raise to the t…

Can you provide references to the facts in those books? Even the titles would be appreciated.

Taxation is not required for representation but taxation does require representation. This fundamental concept of American democracy is applicable in only one direction. I don't see how you established the connection between managers and politicians.

Corporate governance and national governance are not equivalent. If an employee or founder is fired that is not the same as failing to be (re)elected. Founders are not initially selected by a democratic system.

I do not accept works of entertainment fiction as evidence of any real world phenomenon.

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