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Do Developers Need College Degrees?

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61–70 of 198 posts

Re: Do Developers Need College Degrees?

#61

Succeed personally: no. Some dev jobs obviously require a lot of foundational knowledge. I wouldn't want to have a colleague who didn't know linear algebra, simply because that's important in my field. That's not important for making Wordpress sites. I think there are things "every good developer should know" such as knowledge about how cpus work, how OS'es work, how some important algorithms work, some basic set the…

With everything that's available in documentation, on YouTube, in forums, and in boot camps and other trainings, doesn't it seem like there are much more efficient ways to get the foundational knowledge that don't require four years of expensive college courses?

It does seem utterly inconceivable that getting copiously documented things into the heads of people would be something only accomplishable through an outmoded and expensive educational process. Surely we've come up with something better by now with all the effort being poured into it!

Yet, perhaps there's something about that process. After all, there are aspects to a formal collegiate experience that are not neatly captured by boot camps, fora, YouTube, and documentation. Perhaps some of those aspects, like an instructional environment that values theory, are of nontrivial significance.

Obviously, it's still possible that something better can be done. This may not be the same as a better option having been developed and being on offer, though.

Re: Do Developers Need College Degrees?

#62
post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The idea of "open source" is also unique, I can't think of any other professions that have something analogous.

No, closed source is I think the more unique thing. I can go to planning offices and see the plans of any building. Almost no-one has "secret painting methods", or "secret plumbing methods".

I've been in AEC since 1989. I can count with the fingers on one head the number of times I've seen individual architects form a community based on unpaid contributions to some big firm's profit driven project. That's bread and butter at Google.

The difference is that construction has long been a commodity industry and software has not become one yet.

Re: Do Developers Need College Degrees?

#63
post #23

I'm someone who graduated with a non-cs engineering degree (and worked professionally as an engineer) whose now in a MSCS program after trying my hand in the job market. Not for a lack of trying, but my experiences definitely relate to an uphill struggle just to get even noticed. And before anyone says "you should do x|y|z", I've done my part pretty well. A few decent sized personal projects, constant studying, meetu…

Where are you located? What kind of positions are you looking for?

I'm sure things are (potentially) quite different now compared to the 17 years ago when I first landed a job building web applications. (My very first job was an internship - sort of - while pursuing a CS degree. My next job was after I had dropped out, left that job and was busy delivering hoagies as my job.) So that was "luck" and being "in the CS education world" when I got started.

Still, I think if I have a point, I started out in silly, minor jobs for little local companies that needed someone that could code more than they needed a highly polished computer scientist or engineer. From there I, more so, "learned on the job" the rest of what I needed to advance (and I continually self-taught by working on my own projects).

Re: Do Developers Need College Degrees?

#64
post #55

I sometimes find it hard to discuss some subjects with some of my co-workers that don't have some degree directly related to computer science. For instance, it's very common for electrical engineers to work on software development and they tend to have a good grasp of how things work in the lower level, but when you start moving up in the abstraction ladder, the discussion starts to become harder. Compilers, types, a…

Can you elaborate (more) what would be required to "fill the gap" to an 80% sufficient extent? Perhaps a list of links / topics / keywords that should be checked out and read about? Perhaps it's possible to get up to speed with ~6 months of self-study...

Re: Do Developers Need College Degrees?

#65
Instead of going to college, I did an apprenticeship and have now been working for three and a half years in the tech industry.

I have also been doing a college degree part-time online, it will take six years in total, but I am working full time so I don't need it, but just want it to maximise my potential.

I am three years into the degree already, so only have three left. I am 21, and my friends are all still at college, so feel like I already have the upper hand.

Just need to get some good content on my GitHub profile!

Re: Do Developers Need College Degrees?

#67
post #25
post #16

We are such a weird profession. What other industry is like "Hey, you can do my job. It's easy, here are lots of extremely detailed courses, documentation and guides on how"

The idea of "open source" is also unique, I can't think of any other professions that have something analogous.

Closed source is what is unique.

I can tear apart any engine to understand how it works.

I can rip out the bathroom in my house and install a totally new one.

With closed source, I can't just rip out component X and replace it with component Y. I can't read the binary to understand how it works (Technically I could, but I mean that with modern languages, the assembly looks massively different from the original source).

Re: Do Developers Need College Degrees?

#68
post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The idea of "open source" is also unique, I can't think of any other professions that have something analogous.

No, closed source is I think the more unique thing. I can go to planning offices and see the plans of any building. Almost no-one has "secret painting methods", or "secret plumbing methods".

Speaking as an artist, this was untrue for us as well pretty much until the internet democratized things. Prior to this the assumption was that if you're good you should just be able to do it or that it should locked up in guru-like ateliers that parcel it out at high cost like Scientology courses. Of course access to basic art instruction has always been available, but a lot of advanced techniques or knowledge in specific subdomains (e.g. animation) was pretty closely guarded.

Re: Do Developers Need College Degrees?

#69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, closed source is I think the more unique thing. I can go to planning offices and see the plans of any building. Almost no-one has "secret painting methods", or "secret plumbing methods".

Almost no-one has "secret painting methods", or "secret plumbing methods". For plumbing, building codes dictate the range of solutions that are available for any given problem, and they're not secret (but buying a guide can be expensive.) However, painters, plumbers, and other trades definitely have tips and techniques that they've learned through experience and from mentors, and you won't find much of that being giv…

> However, painters, plumbers, and other trades definitely have tips and techniques that they've learned through experience and from mentors, and you won't find much of that being given away freely.

Exactly this. My father is a civil engineer who's now in his early 60s, and he recently got to work with colleagues much younger than him.

He told me that said colleagues didn't know some trade-related stuff which hadn't got covered in university courses (like how to reinforce earth ditches when digging in mountainous terrain with probable heavy rains) but which was paramount in keeping the work going (not much that you can do once a ditch collapses because of heavy rain). He told me that in this instance he had instructed his younger colleagues on what was the correct procedure to take, but he also told me that he's got other professional secrets that he's not ready to share just yet.

Re: Do Developers Need College Degrees?

#70

Succeed personally: no. Some dev jobs obviously require a lot of foundational knowledge. I wouldn't want to have a colleague who didn't know linear algebra, simply because that's important in my field. That's not important for making Wordpress sites. I think there are things "every good developer should know" such as knowledge about how cpus work, how OS'es work, how some important algorithms work, some basic set the…

Maybe early in career you are correct, however after 5+ years of professional experience nobody even cares to which school you went or do you even have a degree.
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