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Do Developers Need College Degrees?

stackoverflow.blog

41–50 of 198 posts

Re: Do Developers Need College Degrees?

#41
Continuing on to college back in 2000 was a big deal. A college education was the underpinning of the American dream, the promise is that it leads to a stable and steady job, which leads to stable payments of a house mortgage, which leads to a stable marriage, which leads to a family.

Then you die.

The promise was bolstered by the returning GIs of WW2 who took advantage of the GI Bill to go back to school. Every generation there after took to that prototyping.

Earn a degree, get a job, buy a house. Repeat.

But in 1996 a very curious thing happened.

The folks that commercialized the works of academics and scientists started to take off and get attention.

Thereafter the work in the industry started to outpace the output from academia.

You want to build a dot-com business? School wasn't going to teach you that. You have to go learn it yourself. You would be stupid to stay in school.

This held true so much that in the early 2000s, when the risk of NOT having a college degree made dropping out to pursue your tech dreams an actual proposition.

But we're flipped now.

In 2017, schooling has caught up. What's discussed in the latest industry is discussed in the class rooms. And not only caught up but been condensed to mere months. You want to build a website? It makes more sense to go to a technical school or college, participate in the college level entrepreneur safe space, or leverage networking.

You would be stupid to not have a college degree.

But now the high cost of college is more of a privilege than anything else.

Good luck.

Re: Do Developers Need College Degrees?

#42
post #23

I'm someone who graduated with a non-cs engineering degree (and worked professionally as an engineer) whose now in a MSCS program after trying my hand in the job market. Not for a lack of trying, but my experiences definitely relate to an uphill struggle just to get even noticed. And before anyone says "you should do x|y|z", I've done my part pretty well. A few decent sized personal projects, constant studying, meetu…

Just the first hurdle though. It took me a year of serious effort to land my first dev job. The second one came to me: I was contacted by a recruiter and asked to interview and ended up accepting that offer about a year after starting in my first position.

I dropped out of high school ten years ago and did nothing of note between then and teaching myself to code.

Just stick with it until you land the first one and you'll be fine.

Re: Do Developers Need College Degrees?

#43
Will you learn more in college than you otherwise would on your own? Probably, especially if you dedicate the same amount of effort in each.

Will having a college degree hurt your chances for getting a job? Not likely.

I'm a developer, and I have a post-grad EE degree in addition to undergrad CS. It's surprising to me how often the EE material and math is useful in my job.

I wouldn't tell anyone to go get a Masters in EE in order to be a good dev, but if you have a realistic option to get a degree without saddling yourself with crippling debt, get the degree.

It's likely to help and unlikely to hurt.

Re: Do Developers Need College Degrees?

#44
post #16

We are such a weird profession. What other industry is like "Hey, you can do my job. It's easy, here are lots of extremely detailed courses, documentation and guides on how"

I think that makes our profession pretty amazing rather than weird. Although, I don't think it's easy.

Re: Do Developers Need College Degrees?

#45

Succeed personally: no. Some dev jobs obviously require a lot of foundational knowledge. I wouldn't want to have a colleague who didn't know linear algebra, simply because that's important in my field. That's not important for making Wordpress sites. I think there are things "every good developer should know" such as knowledge about how cpus work, how OS'es work, how some important algorithms work, some basic set the…

I knew linear algebra in high school. I taught myself matrix math because I wanted to make games, and because the most challenging math my lackluster rural public high school offered was basic calculus.

My top university's CS program had a linear algebra class that loaded me up with theory though like Hilbert spaces, wavelet transforms, spectral theory, abstract algebra, and of course, principal component analysis (but the latter, along with SVD, is becoming more valuable these days with data science-y type jobs).

It was more concerned with proofs and advanced concepts than applications, which was fine for me, because I already learned the applications in high school because I was bored and self-motivated. The most valuable benefit of learning all of this extra theory to me was learning how to solve problems because doing proofs isn't some algorithm like long division or evaluating a derivative that you can just crunch as a cog-in-the-wheel.

The question is whether all of that extra rigmarole is worth it in my day-to-day development work. The answer to that is "no." Occasionally, I'll borrow some code that does thing X that is tangentially related (like convolution for computer vision and deep learning), but the theory behind it rarely comes in handy because I'm not doing academia or R&D work.

Of course, your usual full stack developer job won't even come close to touching any of this, but if you're doing moonshot type work like self-driving cars, you're going to need all of this theory to really attack the types of unsolved problems you're facing. Those types of jobs are rare, sometimes highly-compensated, and inaccessible to your Hack Reactor grad.

Re: Do Developers Need College Degrees?

#46
post #40

The key here is "developer". A web developer can learn to write code for a pretty website. This only requires very basic knowledge and essentially no math is involved. In contrast, an engineer or computer scientist capable of working as an applied mathematician definitely requires an advance degree. I laugh when webdevs call themselves engineers.

>In contrast, an engineer or computer scientist capable of working as an applied mathematician definitely requires an advance degree. I laugh when webdevs call themselves engineers. Why would you think this? Do you think everyone who has a degree in CS understands algorithms, compilers, type theory, PL design, or operating systems at a deep level? Why would it be impossible for a self taught dev to learn these things…

It's just simple gatekeeping. People are finally having to admit you can be a developer without a CS degree so they're moving the goalposts.

"Fine, you're a webdev, but you'll never be AN ENGINEER."

Re: Do Developers Need College Degrees?

#48
My degree is as unrelated to maths or sciences or computers as is possible but I've been working remotely for many years as a developer, despite not having looked into it until I was out of college for many years. So college really has nothing to do with it at all, in my experience.

College might get you contacts and job prospects, but I've interacted with a lot of developers who do have college degrees but because their training was relatively recently, they didn't get a lot of important knowledge about things like memory management because a huge number of schools only teach GC languages now, so I still have an edge against those with degrees since I made it a point to learn C++ really really well.

Re: Do Developers Need College Degrees?

#49
post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The idea of "open source" is also unique, I can't think of any other professions that have something analogous.

No, closed source is I think the more unique thing. I can go to planning offices and see the plans of any building. Almost no-one has "secret painting methods", or "secret plumbing methods".

> Almost no-one has "secret painting methods", or "secret plumbing methods".

Magicians!

(an exception that proves your rule of course)

Re: Do Developers Need College Degrees?

#50
I didn't. Although 1) I do have 3-4 semesters worth of college heavily focused on CS. 2) Back when I started, 30years ago. it was much less of a thing (to have CS degree) 3) I've been programming since I can remember. I grew up reading Byte (before it sucked) and Dr. Dobbs, I taught myself C in 6th or 7th grade from my dad's copy of K&R. I've spent inordinate amounts of time, way more than time spent getting a degree(or several), learning, studying and practicing the art of software development.

College degree is the easy way.

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