What I Heard from Trump Supporters • Hacker News Board

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#391

Post by jstimpfle » Tue, Feb 21, 2017, 7:46 PM UTC

boona wrote: post #315

jstimpfle wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What part of the "CO2->Global Warming->Catastrophe" thing is it that you don't buy? What is "false consensus"? Are you in a position to judge the conclusions supported by a vast majority (that's only my perception, but how likely is it to be completely mistaken?) of experts? What brings you to the conclusion that global warming could be a hoax? Do you have a reason for not trusting the experts? Who could be intereste…

Scott Adams, the creator of Dilbert, wrote an interesting piece on this topic. http://blog.dilbert.com/post/154082416051/the-non-expert-pro...

Thank you, very interesting!

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#392

Post by dguaraglia » Tue, Feb 21, 2017, 7:46 PM UTC

shklnrj wrote: post #370

dguaraglia wrote: post #335

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that it goes both ways: take Fox and Friends instead of Maher, and you get exactly the same kind of reaction. I'm not sure why you are singling out "liberal ideology" here, when my favorite new joke is a rehash of an old one: "how can you tell if a person is a Trump supporter? Don't worry, they'll tell you !".

Haha I am amused at your assumption. I am not going to clarify the air too much, except saying that what you seem to be assuming is wrong :)

What assumption? If you think I'm assuming you are a Trump supporter, please state where I said that?

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#393

Post by finid » Tue, Feb 21, 2017, 7:47 PM UTC

aorloff wrote: post #143

darkmouth wrote: post #108

We are unwelcoming to people who are factually wrong. If you deny science, basic human rights, if you lack compassion for people who come from less fortunate countries, if you feel you're entitled to things others are not, then yes, I can proudly say silicon valley as well as other liberal enclaves are very unwelcoming to such people. Lastly, we do not, and will not welcome anyone who elects a man like trump just to…

> if you lack compassion for people who come from less fortunate countries What I'm hearing people saying is that they want a candidate who will talk about compassion for the economic futures of Americans. If you are barely making ends meet, you don't want a candidate talking about compassion for people from less fortunate countries, when out in the countryside of America you see a lot of people who could hardly be l…

If we spent less invading and rebuilding other countries, we'd have more than enough to take care of our less fortunate citizens. That will even reduce the number of the less fortunate from other countries, if you consider that a significant percentage are from countries that we invaded.

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#394

Post by jrs235 » Tue, Feb 21, 2017, 7:47 PM UTC

jrs235 wrote: post #310

spaceman_2020 wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What gets my goat is the kind of shouting down I get whenever I take any contrarian stance on non-GMO foods, or God forbid, vaccination. I know that vaccines are critical and that there is nothing wrong with them. But to not even admit the possibility that there might be a link between vaccines and some health problems is, to me, very anti-science. My understanding for science has always been to question all assumpti…

If you want to see some cognitive gear grinding and confusion, if you run into anyone that believes that vaccinations should be mandated by law, ask them "if it's my body, isn't it my choice?"

At the moment I can't reply to jat850's coment

>Maybe, but there's probably something to be said for social cost that make that argument somewhat less valid. Herd immunity. Seat belt and helmet laws, etc. Note that I am not taking a position here on vaccinations or anything else, just that it's not the best point one could make (other than for some casual amusement at cognitive gear grinding and confusion). It'd be the same as making fun of someone with anti-abortion views by saying "but death penalty lol isn't all life valuable!?" - which I am certain many have said and heard, but this type of arguing doesn't actually approach the reality behind issues and beliefs and positions.

The purpose isn't to be a jerk. The purpose is to cause anyone to pause and think through their position more thoroughly. What rules should apply, when and when not. Without searching more deeply for a more principled position it will come down to "because that's how I feel". But that's not how someone else feels. And what makes one person's feelings more important or superior to another's?

So, when does society get more say than you over your body?

Personally I don't think we should use and rely on the law to try to legislate away stupidity. We should use compassionate education. Yeah, I know, it sucks we have to be patient and not everyone will get on board. The only other option is to imprison and kill all the people that don't agree with you.

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#395

Post by khuey » Tue, Feb 21, 2017, 7:47 PM UTC

throwaway713 wrote: post #90

> Almost everyone I asked was willing to talk to me, but almost none of them wanted me to use their names The fear of losing career opportunities is real. I typically refrain from any political discussion online because of the possibility of it being traced back to me, and on my main HN account (and any accounts linked to my name) I have never posted anything political. That said, I live in a mid-size city in the Sou…

> but I think that if Trump and Hillary had the same views on abortion, Hillary would have undoubtedly won the election

I suspect that the set of voters who would have shifted from Trump to an anti-abortion HRC is smaller than the set of voters who would have defected from a anti-abortion HRC to Jill Stein or stayed home.

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#396

Post by mnm1 » Tue, Feb 21, 2017, 7:47 PM UTC

AdeptusAquinas wrote: post #95

I can give him a data point from outside the US, from one of the other progressive, English speaking countries in the world, New Zealand: I don't know if it has fully sunk in yet to the US populace how completely they have humiliated themselves, on the world stage. We don't get exposed to Fox, or Breitbart, or even CNN. I get most of my international news from the BBC, for example. From our perspective, the election…

Exactly. And now we are being asked to be understanding of the people who voted for this madman and accused of being intolerant for not accepting the bullshit they spew (see most of the quotes from this article), all in the name of not being divisive. What Sam Altman didn't hear from Trump supporters was any mention of an actual political issue, other than abortion. I'd say that speaks a lot louder than any of the things they are willing to talk about. I hear the suffering and pain in what people say, but zero discussion of the actual issues that are the cause of that. What isn't said speaks a lot louder in this case.

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#397

Post by agmcleod » Tue, Feb 21, 2017, 7:47 PM UTC

paskster wrote: post #10

I like this quote so much and I love that it stands out: “You all can defeat Trump next time, but not if you keep mocking us, refusing to listen to us, and cutting us out. It’s Republicans, not Democrats, who will take Trump down.” I believe we have a similar problem in Germany. Several political decisions where called "alternativlos" (having not alternative option) and everybody opposing them was basically labeled a…

I get that argument, but I see people of different minorities who just simply don't want to work with them, because the trump supporters put the grossness and sexism aside. They want to fix the voter surpression, and better encourage people who support the side of equality to come out and vote, than convince the people who supported trump.

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#398

Post by hkmurakami » Tue, Feb 21, 2017, 7:47 PM UTC

justinsaccount wrote: post #270

austenallred wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I moved to San Francisco from a rural town, and I would feel 10x more comfortable sharing my liberal viewpoints in a small, deeply-red town than I would insinuating something anything less than 100% left-leaning at work here. People disagree in small town Utah, and it would be uncomfortable. In San Francisco you're ostracized. It even makes me nervous to leave my name attached to a comment like this, knowing that my…

> I would feel 10x more comfortable sharing my liberal viewpoints in a small, deeply-red town I'm sure I'd feel comfortable sharing liberal viewpoints in a small, deeply-red town as well, but I'm also a straight white male. You're worry about being ostracized. People in Kansas have to worry that radical christian terrorists are going to murder them [1]. [1]: http://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/kansas-crusaders-arrest…

Leaders and managers of organizations have said that they'd like to sabotage the careers of Trump supporters and/or Republicans in their org.

That's pretty threatening I think?

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#399

Post by Marcus316 » Tue, Feb 21, 2017, 7:48 PM UTC

jrs235 wrote: post #310

spaceman_2020 wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What gets my goat is the kind of shouting down I get whenever I take any contrarian stance on non-GMO foods, or God forbid, vaccination. I know that vaccines are critical and that there is nothing wrong with them. But to not even admit the possibility that there might be a link between vaccines and some health problems is, to me, very anti-science. My understanding for science has always been to question all assumpti…

If you want to see some cognitive gear grinding and confusion, if you run into anyone that believes that vaccinations should be mandated by law, ask them "if it's my body, isn't it my choice?"

Let's push the thought experiment a bit. Let's suppose you have the option to opt-out from vaccination.

If the premise is that you are responsible for your own body, then shouldn't you also be responsible for any consequences that occur as a result of your choice to opt-out?

As a non-vaccinated person, carrying a disease that would normally be vaccinated against, can you be held responsible in the event that the disease you carry infects, for instance, a child that is not yet old enough to be vaccinated against that particular disease, or infects someone who was unable to be vaccinated due to other medical reasons? Should you be fined or prosecuted in the event that your choice to opt-out can be directly linked to a significant health event?

It's hard to talk about disease on an individual basis. A person's choices with respect to their own health has an impact on the individuals around them, and I do think that people should be mindful of the community when making lifestyle choices. I'm not saying a person shouldn't make their own choices, but should accept that those choices aren't just going to affect their own individual health in many cases.

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#400

Post by mrkurt » Tue, Feb 21, 2017, 7:48 PM UTC

convoces wrote: post #236

Yhippa wrote: post #40

This one gave me the most pause: > “Silicon Valley is incredibly unwelcoming to alternative points of view. Your curiosity, if it is sincere, is the very rare exception to the rule.” Substitute "Silicon Valley" for any major liberal enclaves, like universities and cities, and I think you see the same thing. I am skeptical by nature and try to take a scientific view of new ideas. However I feel like I get shouted down…

>try to take a scientific view >People start throwing link after link of facts You get upset when people present you with links to facts to respond to your proposed ideas? I can sympathize that it is definitely no fun if you feel like your ideas aren't getting the attention they deserve, but if you have trouble defending the ideas in the face of factual sources, maybe it's possible that one could reconsider those ide…

There are two kinds of listening, you can listen to understand and listen to respond.

I read that comment as: "people overload me with facts before giving me a chance to communicate what I'm actually thinking". It's not fun for anyone to have a complicated set of thoughts, get up the courage to share them, and then get cut off before what they've said out loud matches what they think in their head. It takes a really good listener to help people get through that.