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What I Heard from Trump Supporters

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Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#271

Post by true_religion »

darkmouth wrote: post #158
aorloff wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> if you lack compassion for people who come from less fortunate countries What I'm hearing people saying is that they want a candidate who will talk about compassion for the economic futures of Americans. If you are barely making ends meet, you don't want a candidate talking about compassion for people from less fortunate countries, when out in the countryside of America you see a lot of people who could hardly be l…

By less fortunate I mean people fleeing war. Refugees. If you think being in a war is same as being poor in the US, you're mistaken.

I think more people would have respect for the plight of Syrian refugees, if broad support of immigration weren't a hallmark of the democratic platform.

If the platform was utterly protectionist (or at the very least pragmatic), but made a moral exception for Syrians then it'd be easier to listen to.

Instead today, it feels as if supporters of immigration are simply cherry picking the most sympathetic candidates and using them to prop open the door for everyone else.

No one lacks sympathy for war refugees, what we all disagree on is where, when, and how such sympathy should be expressed. There are wars happening in our world constantly. Should there be an open door policy to all refugees? Should they ever be expected to leave the country? (some say yes, but I'd argue that after building a life for 5+ years in the US, you ought to given permanent residency). Should there be any kind of screening processes? (after all wars do not erupt from nowhere, some civilians will always support the 'bad' side, even if they eventually become refugees).

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#272

Post by dosgonlogs »

fny wrote: post #35
shklnrj wrote: post #5

I think that when people "KNOW" that they are "RIGHT", it sometimes brings moral superiority into people. That, in addition to norms of socially acceptable behaviour, pushes people into a corner. For example - If someone goes to Bill Maher's show, anyone clapping on a conservative view point is seen as a criminal, while people with liberal point of view clap "together" as a group, with the smug arrogance of knowing t…

To his credit, Bill Maher is incredibly good at creating a safe space for everyone to express their views at least, and frequently seeks out figureheads who disagree with him, much like Bill O'Reilly does. Also, Bill Maher constantly berates liberals for being easily triggered and calling for the suppression of free speech through "chilling effects" of PC culture. Liberals seem to have forgotten the ACLU has defended…

Bill Maher is just awful. Horrible interviewer, horrible at pacing things, horrible at listening, don't give a crap what his views are.

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#273

Post by tdkl »

amluto wrote: post #123
savanaly wrote: post #7

This was a fascinating read. I myself go back and forth daily between the two positions: a) compromise and appeasement of evil is wrong, if trump and his supporters act like nazis then call them that, and b) it's totally unproductive and gets us nowhere to simply pile on joke after joke, insult after insult, millions upon millions of them on every social media and tv show available to us, on the red tribe aka the tru…

> a) compromise and appeasement of evil is wrong, if trump and his supporters act like nazis then call them that Calling a Nazi a Nazi is one thing, but do you honestly believe that nearly 50% of American voters are Nazis, Nazi sympathizers, or have Nazi-like views? I don't. I think nearly 50% of voters thought that, in balance, Trump was a better choice than Hillary. If all Trump supporters are Nazis, then presumabl…

For someone left leaning anyone not agreeing with him is a "Nazi", "fascist", "racist". The right leaning group interviewed in the article got sick of that as well.

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#274

Post by John23832 »

skylan_q wrote: post #173
kneel wrote: post #52

Trump won largely because of disenfranchised blue collar caucasians resonated with him. Watching the witch hunt over the last 2 months you would think it would be anything but that. Fake news (just call it propaganda), russian hackers, 4chan memes and white supremacists have all received the majority of blame. I'm curious to whether the Democrats will ever come to terms with reality here, or will they just double dow…

I'm curious to whether the Democrats will ever come to terms with reality here, or will they just double down and continue the blame game? I've been following. They're doubling down on the Russia conspiracy theories, identity politics, alluding to Trump being Hitler. The party is in shambles, philosophically speaking. It's a shame. It's also ironic that Trump has pictures of President Andrew Jackson(D) in his office.

The Democrat that was Andrew Jackson nothing like any Democrat today. The Republicans have their friend Nixon[0] to thank for that. The irony is lost if you know America's political history.

[0] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_strategy

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#275

Post by mildbow »

archagon wrote: post #187
AdeptusAquinas wrote: post #95

I can give him a data point from outside the US, from one of the other progressive, English speaking countries in the world, New Zealand: I don't know if it has fully sunk in yet to the US populace how completely they have humiliated themselves, on the world stage. We don't get exposed to Fox, or Breitbart, or even CNN. I get most of my international news from the BBC, for example. From our perspective, the election…

What's even more humiliating is how (apparently) indifferent — or even accepting — parts of the tech community and Silicon Valley are of this development. (See all the "it's PC culture's fault" in this thread and elsewhere.) It's overwhelmingly obvious that we're in deep shit. Regardless of their beliefs and politics, people who self-label as "smart" should be fucking livid .

Self-labeled smart people are the ones with the biggest blind-spots.

Also, how would being livid help?

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#276

Post by pnutjam »

shklnrj wrote: post #5

I think that when people "KNOW" that they are "RIGHT", it sometimes brings moral superiority into people. That, in addition to norms of socially acceptable behaviour, pushes people into a corner. For example - If someone goes to Bill Maher's show, anyone clapping on a conservative view point is seen as a criminal, while people with liberal point of view clap "together" as a group, with the smug arrogance of knowing t…

I've never lived in a left leaning area, but conservative, "gun-loving", etc has been a fashion statement for at least a decade.

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#277

Post by Cookingboy »

darkmouth wrote: post #150
austenallred wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And what if life isn't as black and white as you seem to believe it is?

What is not black an white about global warming or evolution? What is not black and white about abortion? What is not black and white about refugees fleeing war? What is not black and white about LGBT rights?

I"m sorry, if you think it's black and white about abortion then you are as close minded as the worst Trump supporters.

Do you think abortion for no reason at all 3 days before birth is the same as abortion within 30 days of pregnancy for the health reason of the mother?

Is it black and white or different shades of gray?

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#278

Post by jstimpfle »

phkahler wrote: post #186
darkmouth wrote: post #108

We are unwelcoming to people who are factually wrong. If you deny science, basic human rights, if you lack compassion for people who come from less fortunate countries, if you feel you're entitled to things others are not, then yes, I can proudly say silicon valley as well as other liberal enclaves are very unwelcoming to such people. Lastly, we do not, and will not welcome anyone who elects a man like trump just to…

>> We are unwelcoming to people who are factually wrong. This comes up from time to time here on HN. I don't buy the whole CO2->Global Warming->Catastrophe thing, and I regularly get down votes here if I try to make arguments to the contrary - even science based arguments. I think a lot of people on the left try to hide behind some kind of false consensus as to what is "better", "morally superior", or "factually corr…

What part of the "CO2->Global Warming->Catastrophe" thing is it that you don't buy? What is "false consensus"? Are you in a position to judge the conclusions supported by a vast majority (that's only my perception, but how likely is it to be completely mistaken?) of experts?

What brings you to the conclusion that global warming could be a hoax? Do you have a reason for not trusting the experts? Who could be interested in spreading the global warming hoax? Wouldn't it be much easier and profitable for them to e.g. sell oil?

These are questions I haven't seen answered so far.

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#279

Post by freehunter »

davidw wrote: post #188
darkmouth wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am a staunch liberal and I don't understand the hostility towards deportation of illegal immigrants either. Calling illegal immigrants undocumented immigrants doesn't make the illegal part go away.

They are illegal because the system is so broken. There's a market demand for those people, and they're moving here to work, by and large. Just because something is set in law does not make it morally right.

>They are illegal because the system is so broken.

They're illegal because what they are doing is against the law. Broken system or not, it's still illegal.

>Just because something is set in law does not make it morally right.

No, but it does make it the law, and breaking it is still illegal. Morals are grey, while law is much more often black and white.

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#280

Post by aetherson »

jlewis7272 wrote: post #215
Yhippa wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's take illegal immigration. Is it wrong for this administration to enforce our current laws? If so maybe the laws need to be crafted to something different. While I don't agree with this administration's methodology this is probably the first time in a while I have seen the reality of our existing laws being executed and now we're seeing the effects of that. I am generally pro-immigration but I like to challenge…

Are you pro-immigration or pro-illegal immigration?

I'm both.

I mean, I'd love to not be pro-illegal immigration, and if we significantly loosened our immigration laws (not to the point of genuine open borders, but to the point where a reasonable person had a path to permanent residency in the US without it being a lottery), then I'd be anti-illegal immigration. But with the status quo, I'm pro-illegal immigration.

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