What I Heard from Trump Supporters • Hacker News Board

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#221

Post by sounds » Tue, Feb 21, 2017, 7:15 PM UTC

Dirlewanger wrote: post #146

kneel wrote: post #52

Trump won largely because of disenfranchised blue collar caucasians resonated with him. Watching the witch hunt over the last 2 months you would think it would be anything but that. Fake news (just call it propaganda), russian hackers, 4chan memes and white supremacists have all received the majority of blame. I'm curious to whether the Democrats will ever come to terms with reality here, or will they just double dow…

No one wants rational debate. In the case of UC Berkeley students, it's easier to cause property damage because an alleged Nazi (an entirely slanderous claim, btw) is given a platform to speak. No one wants to wade through the muck and find out what opposing viewpoints are actually saying. Edit: And the people scoffing at my comment and hitting the downvote button are only proving my point.

I did not downvote your comment, and encourage all who did to post the reason, politely please.

Perhaps "No one" is a little too strong, but I think the general gist of what you're saying may be fair.

I am not familiar with the reasons for property damage in Berkeley. Can you post links? Anything you can provide that would make it easier to evaluate the viewpoints of all involved at Berkeley?

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#222

Post by meat_fist » Tue, Feb 21, 2017, 7:16 PM UTC

austenallred wrote: post #112

Yhippa wrote: post #40

This one gave me the most pause: > “Silicon Valley is incredibly unwelcoming to alternative points of view. Your curiosity, if it is sincere, is the very rare exception to the rule.” Substitute "Silicon Valley" for any major liberal enclaves, like universities and cities, and I think you see the same thing. I am skeptical by nature and try to take a scientific view of new ideas. However I feel like I get shouted down…

I moved to San Francisco from a rural town, and I would feel 10x more comfortable sharing my liberal viewpoints in a small, deeply-red town than I would insinuating something anything less than 100% left-leaning at work here. People disagree in small town Utah, and it would be uncomfortable. In San Francisco you're ostracized. It even makes me nervous to leave my name attached to a comment like this, knowing that my…

> I would feel 10x more comfortable sharing my liberal viewpoints in a small, deeply-red town than I would insinuating something anything less than 100% left-leaning at work here.

Serious question: are you white?

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#223

Post by jacobolus » Tue, Feb 21, 2017, 7:16 PM UTC

tlb wrote: post #189

jacobolus wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Considering Trump didn’t write any of his own books, and hasn’t read a whole book in decades (including the ones he puts his name on), why would reading “his” book give an accurate impression of his ideas, vs. just listening directly to the source (his tweets and campaign rallies)? Anything “coherent”/“nuanced”/“subtle” is the invention of the ghostwriter, a kind of best-guess translation from word salad to something…

I didn't say it gave an accurate impression of his personal ideas, I said that reading it would help people understand his appeal, since it convinced many of his supporters. It's usually a mistake to focus too much on the personal limitations of the front man. Like assuming that because Robert Plant wasn't a good guitar player, Led Zeppelin must not be a good band. It's better to understand the ideas in the book (and…

Can you give an example of who you consider to be the “intellectual” with “very clear ideas” behind Trump’s team’s ideology/agenda? Are we talking about Bannon and Miller here? Kushner? Priebus and Ryan? Roger Stone and Rudy Giuliani? Vladimir Putin? The Koch brothers?

Anyhow, nobody in Trump’s new administration had anything to do with writing his book. In practice most of Trump’s policy agenda is going along with the standard GOP playbook of deregulating environmental pollution, cutting funding to reproductive healthcare, eliminating taxes on the wealthiest, restricting labor rights, slashing funding for scientific research, privatizing infrastructure and public institutions, boosting weapons spending, and so on. There has been a lot of thought put into these (it’s worth billions of dollars to donors) but I wouldn’t really call it intellectual per se: intellectually dishonest obfuscation of the intended outcomes is half the purpose of these plans.

Trump’s “signature ideas” like deporting all Muslims, imposing a 20% tariff on imports, “bringing back” all the coal jobs, growing the economy by 4% per year, and building a wall and making Mexico pay for it are pretty much all Trump, and are doomed to fail.

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#224

Post by davidw » Tue, Feb 21, 2017, 7:16 PM UTC

darkmouth wrote: post #145

dmode wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Immigration laws were already being enforced vigorously. Obama administration set the record in deportation and was often called the "Deporter in Chief". And all of this was done without raising xenophobia and labeling a group of people as hard criminals and rapists.

I think they are referring to the protests that arose when media reported that non-violent illegal immigrants are being deported.

Like when a mother was separated from her sons? I wonder why that might set people off...

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#225

Post by grzm » Tue, Feb 21, 2017, 7:16 PM UTC

giarc wrote: post #175

grzm wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Will you elaborate on this? What's interesting about it?

I'm not the parent commentor, but they may be referring to the fact that HN pulled all political topics for a week a while ago.

I'm aware of Political Detox Week, and other comments by the mods on politics on HN. Given I understand them, I personally don't find it interesting, at least not enough to comment on, particularly not without further elaboration.

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#226

Post by austenallred » Tue, Feb 21, 2017, 7:16 PM UTC

meat_fist wrote: post #222

austenallred wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I moved to San Francisco from a rural town, and I would feel 10x more comfortable sharing my liberal viewpoints in a small, deeply-red town than I would insinuating something anything less than 100% left-leaning at work here. People disagree in small town Utah, and it would be uncomfortable. In San Francisco you're ostracized. It even makes me nervous to leave my name attached to a comment like this, knowing that my…

> I would feel 10x more comfortable sharing my liberal viewpoints in a small, deeply-red town than I would insinuating something anything less than 100% left-leaning at work here. Serious question: are you white?

Yes

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#227

Post by tdkl » Tue, Feb 21, 2017, 7:16 PM UTC

darkmouth wrote: post #164

benbenolson wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is exactly what the current top comment (by shklnrj) is talking about, and is one of the major reasons that Trump got elected. darkmouth here is doubling down on the exact same strategy that lead many away from liberalism this election cycle.

and you're suggesting we shut up and keep quiet when we KNOW we are RIGHT? That is not going to happen. Submitting to tantrums only makes those people get stronger.

Of course you won't, you're screaming, crying, assaulting people and causing damage to property instead.

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#228

Post by st3v3r » Tue, Feb 21, 2017, 7:16 PM UTC

shklnrj wrote: post #84

Frondo wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't those widespread calls fall under the callers' freedom of speech? Why shouldn't they be able to call for Thiel's ouster? Why shouldn't I be able to call for shklnrj to be fired, so long as I do it through the usual public channels (e.g. are not harassing you or your workplace, etc)? Hopefully, your boss would dismiss me as a nutter. But hey, that's free speech in action.

Very clever. Yes calls for my firing would be under freedom of speech. Agree totally. But a culture in which only one side is able to call for firing because that side's opinion is WRONG leads to a divided society. Imagine people asking for firing of someone because that person supported Hillary Clinton for some reason? In such a society, the side whose voice is silenced by the popular culture would come out to vote…

This is false equivalence at it's best. If it was Mitt Romney or John McCain, you might have a point. But this was Trump. Trump openly mocked the disabled. He espoused xenophobic and racist viewpoints. He embraced the KKK's support of him, often retweeting white nationalists. Fuck, he put Steve Bannon, the head of the neo-Nazis as his advisor.

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#229

Post by 794CD01 » Tue, Feb 21, 2017, 7:16 PM UTC

shklnrj wrote: post #5

I think that when people "KNOW" that they are "RIGHT", it sometimes brings moral superiority into people. That, in addition to norms of socially acceptable behaviour, pushes people into a corner. For example - If someone goes to Bill Maher's show, anyone clapping on a conservative view point is seen as a criminal, while people with liberal point of view clap "together" as a group, with the smug arrogance of knowing t…

In modern democratic society, this war of ideas is what we've chosen to use instead of wars of violence to control the transition of power in government. It's pretty reasonable that it will evolve over time as traditional war did. That's the entire idea behind Alex Jones' site, and he's been very influential on Trump and his campaign. I see clear information-war analogues to doctrines like guerrilla tactics, total war, etc.

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#230

Post by jlewis7272 » Tue, Feb 21, 2017, 7:16 PM UTC

dmode wrote: post #131

Yhippa wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's take illegal immigration. Is it wrong for this administration to enforce our current laws? If so maybe the laws need to be crafted to something different. While I don't agree with this administration's methodology this is probably the first time in a while I have seen the reality of our existing laws being executed and now we're seeing the effects of that. I am generally pro-immigration but I like to challenge…

Immigration laws were already being enforced vigorously. Obama administration set the record in deportation and was often called the "Deporter in Chief". And all of this was done without raising xenophobia and labeling a group of people as hard criminals and rapists.

No post body was provided.