What I Heard from Trump Supporters • Hacker News Board

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#101

Post by Clanan » Tue, Feb 21, 2017, 6:57 PM UTC

Gasp, you mean people of opposing beliefs actually have a reason for those beliefs and aren't just (all) idiots!? This is a great example of the impact of an echo chamber. It suddenly becomes an enlightening event to learn that opponents aren't actually monsters or bogeymen.

I, for one, hope one result of these sorts of "revelations" is the re-emergence of the importance of real tolerance. Not the pseudo-acceptance that is the mainstay of today, but the belief that we should be free to harbor opposing views without being immediately attacked, exiled, shamed, etc. And not just for the current winners (or losers), which is the boomerang we're seeing now.

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#102

Post by fuzzybeard » Tue, Feb 21, 2017, 6:58 PM UTC

panic wrote: post #6

RangerScience wrote: post #2

The #1 difference I notice between people I talk to who identify as the "left" or the "right" is whether America is an inclusive or exclusive "club". Also, main takeaway from this? Don't attack people. It seems like that's a big complaint from the[se] people: I've been attacked for my beliefs and values.

It can be hard to separate criticism from an attack. If you say something racist, and I tell you so, is that an attack?

It becomes a problem when people subscribe to the "punch a Nazi" theme and then label all Trump supporters as Nazis. It's an 'end justifies the means' mentality which is troubling.

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#103

Post by madamelic » Tue, Feb 21, 2017, 6:58 PM UTC

droopybuns wrote: post #68

jacobolus wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Considering Trump didn’t write any of his own books, and hasn’t read a whole book in decades (including the ones he puts his name on), why would reading “his” book give an accurate impression of his ideas, vs. just listening directly to the source (his tweets and campaign rallies)? Anything “coherent”/“nuanced”/“subtle” is the invention of the ghostwriter, a kind of best-guess translation from word salad to something…

When all politicians rely on speech writers, what is the point you are making? The result is the same: someone was commissioned to draft statements that the speaker endorses.

The point is that his brain is scrambled. He is seemingly incapable of putting together a straight-forward thought.

There is a difference between shaping and deciphering.

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#104

Post by danaliv » Tue, Feb 21, 2017, 6:58 PM UTC

clairity wrote: post #69

the dichotomy that trips me up time and again is that trump supporters (as evidenced in these anecdotes) are much more concerned about feelings: fearfulness, isolation, encroachment, insult, loss of status, etc. but lefties are more interested in policy-making, i.e, what's the right rules and regulations to implement to solve social and economic problems (with an air of superiority of having the "right answer" coming…

> but lefties are more interested in policy-making

Boy, we'd like to think so, wouldn't we?

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#105

Post by wueiweiuhle » Tue, Feb 21, 2017, 6:58 PM UTC

api wrote: post #13

"He's not politically correct." I think this is important. Among the many problems with PC is this: When you exclude an idea from discussion, you don't eliminate that idea. You drive it underground into an echo chamber where it gathers strength and resurfaces later. Censorship -- even of a soft de-facto variety -- creates the impression that your position is weak. The censored idea starts to develop the mystique of a…

"He's not politically correct."

It's as if people who rage against political correctness don't understand what it means. It means showing respect and being polite and not using pejoratives. That's all.

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#106

Post by clamprecht » Tue, Feb 21, 2017, 6:58 PM UTC

shklnrj wrote: post #5

I think that when people "KNOW" that they are "RIGHT", it sometimes brings moral superiority into people. That, in addition to norms of socially acceptable behaviour, pushes people into a corner. For example - If someone goes to Bill Maher's show, anyone clapping on a conservative view point is seen as a criminal, while people with liberal point of view clap "together" as a group, with the smug arrogance of knowing t…

Paul Graham's "Keep Your Identity Small" (2009) article is relevant here:

http://paulgraham.com/identity.html

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#107

Post by pg314 » Tue, Feb 21, 2017, 6:58 PM UTC

gedy wrote: post #28

savanaly wrote: post #7

This was a fascinating read. I myself go back and forth daily between the two positions: a) compromise and appeasement of evil is wrong, if trump and his supporters act like nazis then call them that, and b) it's totally unproductive and gets us nowhere to simply pile on joke after joke, insult after insult, millions upon millions of them on every social media and tv show available to us, on the red tribe aka the tru…

> Then I read a casually racist opinion from a red tribe member or hear another xenophobic policy proposed by Trump and swing right back to a. I understand and respect that - but my friends who do that seem to also turn a blind eye to riots and beatings from folks "the left". There just seems to be a lot of double standards with saying fringe wackos on one side represent the entire group, but not the the side.

There are fringe wackos on both sides, but only one of the sides had a fringe wacko as a candidate.

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#108

Post by darkmouth » Tue, Feb 21, 2017, 6:58 PM UTC

We are unwelcoming to people who are factually wrong. If you deny science, basic human rights, if you lack compassion for people who come from less fortunate countries, if you feel you're entitled to things others are not, then yes, I can proudly say silicon valley as well as other liberal enclaves are very unwelcoming to such people.

Lastly, we do not, and will not welcome anyone who elects a man like trump just to threaten others into submission.

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#109

Post by 2pointsomone » Tue, Feb 21, 2017, 6:58 PM UTC

I still still still, for the life of me, don't understand why a large number of people have labelled Hillary "corrupt". Someone please explain?

(am I naive to believe that having a private email server wasn't much of an offense, she was just doing her job in the Benghazi case, and that the Clinton Foundation has only ever meant to do good?)

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#110

Post by dmode » Tue, Feb 21, 2017, 6:58 PM UTC

toss1941 wrote: post #24

mjevans wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the same is true for all of the political parties in the US. Everyone likes to feel that they are correct and refuses to consider that not only their viewpoint, but the calibration of society as a whole, might be (and I believe is, in the case of the US) out of balance and that thus perceptions are even further off than a gut feeling would conclude.

There is a very strong perception that if you are a conservative and you speak out either against left-wing views, someone will try to destroy your career and rob you of your livelihood. Take a look at a recent example of a teacher who made comments on Facebook about the #DayWithoutImmigrants[0]. Those parents who supported amnesty ascribed racism to what was an otherwise completely non-racist comment, and enough of…

May be that's because left wing areas are indeed safe space to express views. I dare not put a pro-choice bumper sticker in a deep red state.