What I Heard from Trump Supporters • Hacker News Board

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#41

Post by neuronexmachina » Tue, Feb 21, 2017, 6:45 PM UTC

RangerScience wrote: post #2

The #1 difference I notice between people I talk to who identify as the "left" or the "right" is whether America is an inclusive or exclusive "club". Also, main takeaway from this? Don't attack people. It seems like that's a big complaint from the[se] people: I've been attacked for my beliefs and values.

After hearing about the studies described in the article below, I've decided that instead of arguing with people I disagree with politically, it's more productive to ask them to describe (in as much detail as feasible) what they see as the biggest positive and negative effects of implementing a particular policy. Most people moderate their views after such reflecting, and I think it's a potential learning opportunity for both parties.

http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2017/02/27/why-facts-dont-...

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#42

Post by jelliclesfarm » Tue, Feb 21, 2017, 6:45 PM UTC

I like that Trump voters know that he is a mixed bag of nuts.

You should follow up by speaking to Hilary voters/supporters. This exercise is incomplete without that part of the equation.

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#43

Post by jat850 » Tue, Feb 21, 2017, 6:45 PM UTC

tn13 wrote: post #17

shklnrj wrote: post #5

I think that when people "KNOW" that they are "RIGHT", it sometimes brings moral superiority into people. That, in addition to norms of socially acceptable behaviour, pushes people into a corner. For example - If someone goes to Bill Maher's show, anyone clapping on a conservative view point is seen as a criminal, while people with liberal point of view clap "together" as a group, with the smug arrogance of knowing t…

Liberals in USA has reached the level of maniacal stupidity. I love politics and participate in events across the political spectrum. But despite my genuine efforts I find the typical left to be completely unfathomable.

I get the feeling like the idea behind Sam's experiment was to eliminate the notion of "unfathomable". Listen and discuss, acknowledge the views and beliefs of others where possible as valid, through empathy and open-mindedness. Sure, there are some viewpoints which can be written off as too far off the deep end, but "liberals" are humans with thoughts and opinions, and so are all those who voted for Trump and/or continue to support him.

The answers in Sam's interviews make this quite clear.

Start trying to fathom instead of just saying you can't?

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#44

Post by alexose » Tue, Feb 21, 2017, 6:46 PM UTC

tn13 wrote: post #17

shklnrj wrote: post #5

I think that when people "KNOW" that they are "RIGHT", it sometimes brings moral superiority into people. That, in addition to norms of socially acceptable behaviour, pushes people into a corner. For example - If someone goes to Bill Maher's show, anyone clapping on a conservative view point is seen as a criminal, while people with liberal point of view clap "together" as a group, with the smug arrogance of knowing t…

Liberals in USA has reached the level of maniacal stupidity. I love politics and participate in events across the political spectrum. But despite my genuine efforts I find the typical left to be completely unfathomable.

Out of curiosity, who do you refer to when you say "liberals"?

I think of myself as liberal, and I bet we could find plenty of common ground.

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#45

Post by davidw » Tue, Feb 21, 2017, 6:46 PM UTC

dboreham wrote: post #21

Honestly not sure this sheds much light. Doesn't it boil down to: I always vote Republican regardless, sorry. I vote according to my pet wedge issue (usually guns or abortion), sorry. I'm bigoted and racist but I'm not going to admit to that. The alternative candidate wasn't very appealing so I figured why not? I liked the idea of a bomb-thrower, sorry.

There's some of that. I'm more curious about the "our world is falling apart" people though, as that seems to be a symptom of a larger problem that's less clear in its solution and less well-defined.

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#46

Post by rdl » Tue, Feb 21, 2017, 6:47 PM UTC

The main reason I support Trump is his stance on 2A, and his nominees to SCOTUS (also colored by that issue.)

2A people are highly motivated to turn out to vote and were a major part of his support.

(I was at a 4 day shotgun class during the election; there were long debates about the two acceptable candidates on multiple issues -- Johnson vs Trump.)

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#47

Post by mindcrime » Tue, Feb 21, 2017, 6:47 PM UTC

RangerScience wrote: post #2

The #1 difference I notice between people I talk to who identify as the "left" or the "right" is whether America is an inclusive or exclusive "club". Also, main takeaway from this? Don't attack people. It seems like that's a big complaint from the[se] people: I've been attacked for my beliefs and values.

Part of the problem is the continued use of the terms "left" and "right", which are meaningless and which perpetuate the idea that the range of political opinion can be represented by a one dimensional continuum.

We need a better vocabulary which more accurately represents different categories of political thought. Unfortunately "liberal" has been over-loaded to the point of being useless at this point as well. And truth be told, both "liberal" and "conservative" seem to be used as pejoratives as much as they are used for any other reason.

Unfortunately I'm just complaining now, as I don't have a ready-to-go alternative to offer up. And even if somebody came up with alternatives, getting people to adopt new terminology would be a huge uphill battle in its own right.

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#48

Post by lsy » Tue, Feb 21, 2017, 6:47 PM UTC

> "You need to give us an opportunity to admit we may have been wrong without saying we’re bad people. I am already thinking I made a mistake, but I feel ostracized from my community."

Folks seem to stay stuck in bad positions because to change their mind would require them to come to terms with, and take responsibility for, having done something morally reprehensible. Ultimately though, it's immature and manipulative to ask that other people refrain from holding you accountable as your precondition to abandoning an indefensible stance. We should all try to identify this feeling in ourselves and use it as a nudge to approach a situation with humility and a willingness to take responsibility for our actions.

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#49

Post by awinder » Tue, Feb 21, 2017, 6:47 PM UTC

RangerScience wrote: post #2

The #1 difference I notice between people I talk to who identify as the "left" or the "right" is whether America is an inclusive or exclusive "club". Also, main takeaway from this? Don't attack people. It seems like that's a big complaint from the[se] people: I've been attacked for my beliefs and values.

How these people feel attacked from the left would be a very important question to ask, though. I mean, they're not walking into artisanal coffee shops and facing this every day. From Sam's account, they're living in communities where there is not a representation from the left where you'd think, oh, they face this adversarial attack every day.

What I'm getting at is that if these people feel attacked because they're fed media that says they're being attacked, that's a very tricky problem to solve. Whatever larger issues the left has with tolerance to ideas, I think it's possibly a mistake to directly call it causation to this feeling of being attacked, because I'd like to see the proof of that first.

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#50

Post by Frondo » Tue, Feb 21, 2017, 6:48 PM UTC

shklnrj wrote: post #33

dwringer wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that's an inaccurate assessment. If someone at such a show holds a minority viewpoint and doesn't want to be the only person clapping, that is up to them. I have never seen a contemporary domestic example of the attitude you describe, of someone like that being "seen as a criminal", except at Donald Trump rallies.

Well there were widespread calls by people to push even Peter Thiel out of silicon valley positions which he holds just because he supported a candidate. His fault - He supported a guy publicly! Even he was seen as criminal. Forget about the average Joe. That's why people wanted confidentiality agreements!

Don't those widespread calls fall under the callers' freedom of speech?

Why shouldn't they be able to call for Thiel's ouster?

Why shouldn't I be able to call for shklnrj to be fired, so long as I do it through the usual public channels (e.g. are not harassing you or your workplace, etc)?

Hopefully, your boss would dismiss me as a nutter. But hey, that's free speech in action.