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Ask HN: I work for consulting firm that's illegally moving bank code to GitHub

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Re: Ask HN: I work for consulting firm that's illegally moving bank code to GitHub

#71
post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't want to (a) duplicate work and (b) misstep so I'm asking first - would you like me to ask in /r/AusLaw about this whole thing? I don't think there's much difference between me and you asking; just trying to be helpful. EDIT: I'm leaving this comment here, but I just learned that /r/AusLaw does not provide legal advice under any circumstances. Asking them would likely get you the same "find a lawyer" advice yo…

Thank you for being helpful. I really appreciate it. I did checkout /r/auslaw and noticed that do not provide any legal advice under any circumstances.

I'm very curious about whether you've made any progress in figuring out how to resolve this yet. Primarily for your sake, and also because of the side effect that this is an excellent learning opportunity for others.

I noticed your response to the person who provided the anonymized email address. Hopefully that proves helpful!

One request: it would be really awesome if you could provide an update when this has all blown over (which I realize might be months from now - although I hope the $ side gets resolved way before then!).

On the one hand bumping old threads doesn't surface them again, on the other hand I'd say it would be a 50/50 chance whether an update post would ever actually reach the front page on here. Somewhere on Reddit might be a better idea, but I'm not (yet) quite sure where would be a good practical, relevant and high-visibility spot to put it.

Re: Ask HN: I work for consulting firm that's illegally moving bank code to GitHub

#72
post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you for being helpful. I really appreciate it. I did checkout /r/auslaw and noticed that do not provide any legal advice under any circumstances.

I'm very curious about whether you've made any progress in figuring out how to resolve this yet. Primarily for your sake, and also because of the side effect that this is an excellent learning opportunity for others. I noticed your response to the person who provided the anonymized email address. Hopefully that proves helpful! One request: it would be really awesome if you could provide an update when this has all bl…

No progress at all. I am about to give up and start looking for new contract.

Consulting company: Does NOT want to talk about it at all.

Bank: They were shocked by the news but since I am not their employee they can't reveal their decisions to me. I think they don't want to rock their boat and the consulting firm is major part of their IT division.

Ombudsman: I am technically not an employee. They want to help me but consulting firm refuses to communicate

Lawyers: Understable that they don't want to get involved unless I pay fees (It's like asking me to take a look at perl code for free). Too expensive and risk that I could be counter-sued. Plus it could potentially be criminal liability (With bank code and even customer data used for UAT on the internet).

Re: Ask HN: I work for consulting firm that's illegally moving bank code to GitHub

#74
post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm very curious about whether you've made any progress in figuring out how to resolve this yet. Primarily for your sake, and also because of the side effect that this is an excellent learning opportunity for others. I noticed your response to the person who provided the anonymized email address. Hopefully that proves helpful! One request: it would be really awesome if you could provide an update when this has all bl…

No progress at all. I am about to give up and start looking for new contract. Consulting company: Does NOT want to talk about it at all. Bank: They were shocked by the news but since I am not their employee they can't reveal their decisions to me. I think they don't want to rock their boat and the consulting firm is major part of their IT division. Ombudsman: I am technically not an employee. They want to help me but…

Ugh. I've been staring at your post for a while wondering about solutions.

I wish there was some way to turn this situation into the bank thanking you with some kind of consideration.

At least it's good to hear that the bank now knows about it, although that doesn't really solve your situation.

I take it that fees are a problem because the contract payouts were stopped, more or less? (As infuriating as that type of situation is) For example I know of one lawyer in NSW who takes computer-related work - for mid-range three figures :/ (that said, would this be interesting to you?)

It sounds to me like it would be a very good idea for you to get a concrete, unambiguous idea (ie sit down and work it out with someone) of where you sit in terms of civil liability, relative to your total and utter ignorance (for example, what's the difference between (a) signing up for this contract, (b) walking into the building for the day and (c) committing the code? IANAL (!!!) but I reckon the argument of intent is equally weak with all examples). It's possible you may be less vulnerable than surface/kneejerk intuition might suggest - but of course I could be wrong. (I have absolutely no idea.)

Besides making it clear to the lawyers about the immediate/current liquidity situation, the bank and ombudsman don't seem completely against you, and I wonder how far you could go with that.

I assume you've reiterated all of the context (without unnecessary details, unless that's okay) with the Ombudsman, to see what ideas they might be able to come up with.

With the bank, you've probably scored a few points with the security and related folks there. If the consulting firm is integrated into the bank then that might point to systemic breakdown elsewhere, but on the other hand, their silence could simply be professionalism on their part while they mete out corporate knuckle sandwiches. (Or I could be being ridiculously optimistic.) Maybe you could chase them down and see if they'd be interested in having you on board; worst (ish) case is that you find more of this kind of thing and get even more points. Something to keep in mind.

Finally, have you tried Legal Aid? They're not lawyers per se, but they may be able to give you a bit of a foundation to headscratch through this with. I would definitely call them. (It's only 3PM!)

As a last resort another contract may turn out to be necessary, and I hope that works out if it comes to that. But don't completely give up, even after that point - you refused to do work that could legally compromise you because it violates corporate policy and standard security access controls, due to the craziness and laziness of others. You should still receive your contract payout.

lol at the perl code bit :)

If you want to get in touch, my email is in my profile, and the username you've picked isn't taken on Gmail yet FWIW; there's really nothing interesting Gmail can leak. Just use a fake name/birthday for the associated G+ account that will get created.

Re: Ask HN: I work for consulting firm that's illegally moving bank code to GitHub

#75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please tell me you're not saying they're using a public repository (one reachable to anyone, even people not logged in to GitHub).

Sorry, that's not what I meant. I mean *.github.com and NOT an enterprise level private repository. If you go to the company's public github & bitbucket profile you cannot see the project but you can see all the devs and all these devs have access to the code. The logic is: All the employees are able to work with minimal delay (caused by background checks)

Thanks for clarifying. It appears some other people in this thread ran to conclusions. Although the situation is still bad, just not immediately disastrous.

Re: Ask HN: I work for consulting firm that's illegally moving bank code to GitHub

#76
post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No progress at all. I am about to give up and start looking for new contract. Consulting company: Does NOT want to talk about it at all. Bank: They were shocked by the news but since I am not their employee they can't reveal their decisions to me. I think they don't want to rock their boat and the consulting firm is major part of their IT division. Ombudsman: I am technically not an employee. They want to help me but…

Ugh. I've been staring at your post for a while wondering about solutions. I wish there was some way to turn this situation into the bank thanking you with some kind of consideration. At least it's good to hear that the bank now knows about it, although that doesn't really solve your situation. I take it that fees are a problem because the contract payouts were stopped, more or less? (As infuriating as that type of s…

Unfortunately there are no solutions. The consulting firm is too firmly entrenched within the bank and the bank cannot make any decision without harming themselves. I have resigned and I will post an update on HN soon.

Re: Ask HN: I work for consulting firm that's illegally moving bank code to GitHub

#77
post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ugh. I've been staring at your post for a while wondering about solutions. I wish there was some way to turn this situation into the bank thanking you with some kind of consideration. At least it's good to hear that the bank now knows about it, although that doesn't really solve your situation. I take it that fees are a problem because the contract payouts were stopped, more or less? (As infuriating as that type of s…

Unfortunately there are no solutions. The consulting firm is too firmly entrenched within the bank and the bank cannot make any decision without harming themselves. I have resigned and I will post an update on HN soon.

Wow.

For what it's worth, thanks very much for the concise headsup.

I think I can safely assume you'll provide a good idea of your experience in that update!

I'd really appreciate a link to it when you post it - I don't want to miss it.

Re: Ask HN: I work for consulting firm that's illegally moving bank code to GitHub

#78
post #25

A. Shut up now. B. Stop talking about this. C. Shhhh! Shut up! D. Get a lawyer It sounds like you're a good guy who want to do the right thing. But no one here can fully understand your situation, and it is not smart for you to be discussing this here. Find a lawyer who can give you good advice and protect your interests.

>It sounds like you're a good guy who want to do the right thing As much as I sound like I am trying to do the right thing all I am doing is avoid going to jail by doing illegal things and earning to feed my family

Gosh darn it! Shut the absolute fuck up! You cannot possibly help yourself by discussing this with your internet buddies on a world-wide public forum.

I tell you this because I love you: Unburden your soul to your favorite lawyer.

Re: Ask HN: I work for consulting firm that's illegally moving bank code to GitHub

#80

I am not clear on one important detail: Is the code being pushed to a public or private GitHub repository? In any case, there are 2 issues: 1. Your employer (the consulting company) does not want to pay you for the work that you have done. 2. Your current assignment involves supposedly illegal activities (putting the customer's (i.e. bank's) code to GitHub) in which you do not want to participate. In order to resolve…

1. Theoretically I am the asshole. I refused to push the code to github and the company refused to pay me. 2. Yes, I refused to do it until proper channels were established but I ended up looking like a sore thumb when other employees didn't mind pushing/pulling from github.com via wifi hotspots. I can talk to the bank, I can quit the job but the bottom line is that I will be without any cash inflow. My lawyer said t…

You did not answer the question.

And how exactly can your past employer "make sure" that you do not have another job? I do not get your remark about the references check.

If your potential future employer will be interested in references from your past employers and if they find out something which raises concerns, they should want to hear your side of the story as well. You will get every chance to explain what exactly happened and why you acted as you did. If they do not like it, you probably would not want to work for them anyway.

In any case, do not get intimidated and do not worry too much about the loss of income. It will be temporary. You have all the freedom to choose your next employer. Do so wisely.

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