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Reflecting on one very, very strange year at Uber

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Re: Reflecting on one very, very strange year at Uber

#921

Post by facepalm »

kevinburke wrote: post #909
facepalm wrote: post #891

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I took issue with the "I guess it is very common that women expect that kind of harassment", because it plays into sexist stereotypes. I think in these matters )(sexism, racism, bias), it pays to be precise. How else can you counter bias? What if countless people told me they had been mugged by black people? Don't understand your comment about lines in the sand. What do you mean?

A very large part of the problem is that claims of harassment are waved away, and the same people are allowed to harass again and again. There's a lot of evidence pointing to "believe women when they say they are harassed."

I didn't say anything about disbelieving any women - I take issue with simply "guessing" that stuff like that happens all the time. That is just confirming bias with bias, completely removed from reality.

Apart from that, I wonder what evidence you are talking about? References? How often are claims waved away? Or is that just something you intuitively know?

And by the way, people coming out in response to such an article is also just classic confirmation bias. You need to put stories in relation to the total workforce before you claim almost everybody gets harassed.

Re: Reflecting on one very, very strange year at Uber

#922

Post by facepalm »

solipsism wrote: post #920
facepalm wrote: post #819

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your guessing sounds rather sexist. Why not stick to data instead of guessing? There is enough bias against men already.

I don't channel Reddit very often but... username checks out.

what do you mean?

Re: Reflecting on one very, very strange year at Uber

#923

Post by vertis »

rstuart4133 wrote: post #370
m0zzie wrote: post #299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We are seeing the exact same thing here in Australia. An app called GoCatch which was a taxis-only app for around 5 years but moved into the ride share market last year. It used to be very difficult to get one of their cars in Sydney, but now I can get one most times I try. Many people seem to like the idea of a locally-owned company versus the tax-dodging (in their eyes) juggernaut from overseas.

So GoCatch works well now? I must give it another go. There is very little price difference between Taxi's and Uber here, and recently the Taxi companies have changed their tune from "it's all so unfair" to "we can and will adapt and compete". Interesting times ...

Just loaded up GoCatch for the first time in Melbourne (Flemington) there are taxis around for me, but no private cars.

Will give it a shot next time I actually need to go somewhere by Taxi.

Re: Reflecting on one very, very strange year at Uber

#924

Post by facepalm »

rleigh wrote: post #898
facepalm wrote: post #819

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your guessing sounds rather sexist. Why not stick to data instead of guessing? There is enough bias against men already.

It would be nice to believe that all these reported events are exceptional, and to an extent they are atypical, but it is indicative of a fairly broken work culture that such things happen. Until recently, I'd only ever read accounts of bad things like this happening at certain conferences, and not seen anything first hand. A few months back, one of the female staff on our team changed their github picture. When ment…

"all these reported events" - what do you mean? There was one event reported here, and a "guess" that it happens often.

I don't doubt men are often attracted to women, even colleagues. Whether that alone should count as sexist harassment I consider debatable, but in any case it is not the same level as a boss proposing sex on the first work day, with threat of career disadvantages for rebuffing the offer.

Re: Reflecting on one very, very strange year at Uber

#925

Post by cbtacy »

facepalm wrote: post #819
kevinburke wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would guess that this happens more often than you imagine. Women often don't share stories like this for fear of retribution at their current company or future companies, or because they think you won't believe them. In addition NDA's are often a condition of receiving severance. Most women in Silicon Valley have had experiences similar to those mentioned in the article (HR disbelief, multiple women reporting same…

Your guessing sounds rather sexist. Why not stick to data instead of guessing? There is enough bias against men already.

I'm guessing you're male? Time to sit down and shut up for a bit, yeah?

Re: Reflecting on one very, very strange year at Uber

#926

Post by cbtacy »

facepalm wrote: post #891
socksy wrote: post #871

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you tried asking them? It feels vaguely ridiculous to expect hard data and facts on things of "people told me". I know I have female friends who have told me similar stories, but I couldn't for the life of me remember how many, nor would I want to start iterating these anecdotes to a stranger on the internet. In exactly the same way it would be to start statistically analysing any other statement on "people told…

I took issue with the "I guess it is very common that women expect that kind of harassment", because it plays into sexist stereotypes. I think in these matters )(sexism, racism, bias), it pays to be precise. How else can you counter bias? What if countless people told me they had been mugged by black people? Don't understand your comment about lines in the sand. What do you mean?

Exactly. You don't understand. So stop talking and start listening to the women around you, yeah?

Re: Reflecting on one very, very strange year at Uber

#927

Post by cbtacy »

facepalm wrote: post #924
rleigh wrote: post #898

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would be nice to believe that all these reported events are exceptional, and to an extent they are atypical, but it is indicative of a fairly broken work culture that such things happen. Until recently, I'd only ever read accounts of bad things like this happening at certain conferences, and not seen anything first hand. A few months back, one of the female staff on our team changed their github picture. When ment…

"all these reported events" - what do you mean? There was one event reported here, and a "guess" that it happens often. I don't doubt men are often attracted to women, even colleagues. Whether that alone should count as sexist harassment I consider debatable, but in any case it is not the same level as a boss proposing sex on the first work day, with threat of career disadvantages for rebuffing the offer.

OMG just stop posting. Seriously.

Re: Reflecting on one very, very strange year at Uber

#928

Post by rleigh »

facepalm wrote: post #924
rleigh wrote: post #898

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would be nice to believe that all these reported events are exceptional, and to an extent they are atypical, but it is indicative of a fairly broken work culture that such things happen. Until recently, I'd only ever read accounts of bad things like this happening at certain conferences, and not seen anything first hand. A few months back, one of the female staff on our team changed their github picture. When ment…

"all these reported events" - what do you mean? There was one event reported here, and a "guess" that it happens often. I don't doubt men are often attracted to women, even colleagues. Whether that alone should count as sexist harassment I consider debatable, but in any case it is not the same level as a boss proposing sex on the first work day, with threat of career disadvantages for rebuffing the offer.

There have been a few high profile incidences of fairly bad things happening over the last year; see the code of conduct introduced at some conferences after some of them. Some people just don't know how to behave appropriately, sad to say. This story being a poster child for how not to behave, and how not to handle the situation properly if you're in HR.

And regarding the last paragraph, I'm not talking about anything in the workplace between colleagues or otherwise. I'm talking about creepy strangers propositioning people they have never ever met or communicated with, on github. github is not a dating or hookup site for strangers. It's for sharing and collaborating on code. There are other, more appropriate, sites for dating- and hookup-related activities with willing participants who opted into it. No one wants or needs to deal with strangers propositioning them through the tools they use for their professional work. You should not feel required to hide your appearance or identity to be comfortable doing your job without being harassed, unsolicited, by strangers.

Re: Reflecting on one very, very strange year at Uber

#929

Post by cbtacy »

sergiotapia wrote: post #43

>On my first official day rotating on the team, my new manager sent me a string of messages over company chat. He was in an open relationship, he said, and his girlfriend was having an easy time finding new partners but he wasn't. Totally normal behavior! Who hasn't spoken about their sex life the very first day of interactions? "Welcome to the team, we use Git for source control, all of our company knowledgebase is…

What kind of weirdo? Here... I'll help. They're male. They're engineers. They work in tech. That's what kind.

Re: Reflecting on one very, very strange year at Uber

#930

Post by headcanon »

facepalm wrote: post #819
kevinburke wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would guess that this happens more often than you imagine. Women often don't share stories like this for fear of retribution at their current company or future companies, or because they think you won't believe them. In addition NDA's are often a condition of receiving severance. Most women in Silicon Valley have had experiences similar to those mentioned in the article (HR disbelief, multiple women reporting same…

Your guessing sounds rather sexist. Why not stick to data instead of guessing? There is enough bias against men already.

finding data about underreporting of sexual harassment in the workplace is by definition difficult, since it is by definition not being reported, so anecdotes are all we have in many cases.

If you want a source though, here is one: (https://hbr.org/2016/10/why-we-fail-to-report-sexual-harassm...)

In this case, the data is moot. It doesn't matter if 10% of women experience this, or 90%. Whether or not it is a problem is not in debate. It is a problem. Preventing sexual harassment is everyone's responsibility, even if you are not the one harassing.

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